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2016-01-18
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thomas09:01:50

@nha certainly very interesting... but commuting to Bristol is just a bit too far for me 😞

jan.zy10:01:09

dear employers, I’ll just say that I know a few brilliant Clojure devs living in Poland, who are not willing to move anywhere 😉 but would love to talk about remote opportunites 😉

jaen10:01:07

Well, not many local Clojure shops in Poland : V

jaen10:01:47

@jan.zy: out of curiosity, what part of Poland?

agile_geek10:01:03

@thomas: even further for me!

jan.zy10:01:07

eg. Podhale, Kaszuby, Warszawa simple_smile

jaen10:01:23

@jan.zy: Podhale and Kaszuby? Now that's something I didn't expect. I'm still sad there doesn't seem to be all that many Clojurians in ÅšlÄ…sk : C

jan.zy10:01:37

heh there are many specialists in small villages all around Poland. My former company found >30 Scala (mostly) developers living outside big cities

jan.zy10:01:49

apparently same goes for Clojure devs

tjg10:01:08

@jan.zy: Maybe you're already aware, but there's #C06B40HMY .

jan.zy10:01:47

yeah, i know,

jan.zy10:01:18

but I’d like to see some more companies advertising there 😉

jaen10:01:34

Hah, I would expect FP devs to be located near good universities like Warszawa or Kraków (Politechnika Śląska unfortunately sucks in that regard), so I'm kind of surprised. Anyway, I wholeheartedly recommend Polish devs, we're a pretty smart bunch over here ; )

jan.zy10:01:08

there is no shortage of programmers there is shortage of employers who understand that remote workers are more efficient simple_smile

jan.zy10:01:24

why? FP is way easier to learn that OO

jan.zy10:01:29

at any exp level

jaen10:01:53

If you are already wired into imperative-mutable-OO mindset it's not as easy. I was lucky enough to learn about Haskell from a friend at my first year, so didn't have that problem.

jaen10:01:19

And FP is certainly a better introduction to programming than C or Pascal my university course started with.

jaen10:01:04

But even though it's better only good universities have courses in that. On PolSl I had a professor mistaking Haskell for a procedural language because hey, it has functions.

jaen10:01:09

And no, not exaggerating.

jaen10:01:04

But on the flipside - this ensures that programmers that know functional languages learned them out of their own initiative, which is something to appreciate in a possible contractor, I think.

agile_geek11:01:49

@jan.zy: not sure I agree that FP is easier. It may reduce incidental complexity but I think how easy you find it depends on your learning style, experiences, etc.

jaen11:01:13

IMO with no previous experience explaining functional programming is easier than imperative programming. I'm kind-of teaching someone programming starting with "Haskell Programming from First Principles"'s first chapter (it has a really solid lambda calculus introduction) and so far it seems to be quite readily understandable.

jaen11:01:39

I'm not sure if it would be so easy if I would have to explain variables, in-place mutability, step-by-step computation a la Turing machine and so on.

jaen11:01:22

Lambda calculus being somewhat analogous to algebra certainly helps in grokking the concept easily.

jaen11:01:52

I'm curious how it will go later when I move from lambda calculus to Racket and "How to Design Programs", but I'm hopeful.

vikeri11:01:12

Yeah I think that people with math backgrounds of some sort would understand the concept of functional programming more readily.

jaen11:01:55

Well, the "maths background" in question is basically just high school maths, the person I'm trying to teach is majoring in psychology, so not all that much higher-level maths there.

jaen11:01:17

I just think if you're learning algebra most of your school life, then functional programming is a fairly natural extension of that.

agile_geek11:01:19

So just me that found it hard then 😉

jaen11:01:40

@agile_geek: but IIRC you learned "normal" programming before functional, right?

vikeri11:01:16

I found it hard since I was way down the OO-swamp...

agile_geek11:01:33

Right - but I am by no stretch of the imagination very capable at maths. In fact in school it was a real struggle.

jaen11:01:31

Yeah, and I think it's the problem - when you learn thinking in the imperative way, then functional programming seems very counter-intuitive. As a gamedev-oriented friend at the university eloquently put it once "Functional programming? Lol, computers don't even work that way, dude.".

jaen11:01:59

If you're a blank slate, functional programming feels like a more natural extension of the school curriculum thus far.

jaen12:01:06

But that's just my opinion.

jaen12:01:40

If an another friend didn't tell me about Haskell at my first year I can imagine myself being as mistified at FP now as they are.

agile_geek12:01:52

Of course I'm also very, very old so it just might be senility!

jaen12:01:05

Hahaha. Rather force of habit.

mx200012:01:39

Please only jobs here simple_smile

jaen12:01:44

You wired your brain to think in the imperative way by doing it for however long you were doing it, so it's hard to re-wire it.

jaen12:01:47

Oh, sorry : C

rmuslimov22:01:24

Just in case if anybody missed this clojure postion in LA http://www.builtinla.com/job/clojure-engineer