Clojurians Log v2

There was a time, many years ago, I experienced much FOMO because everyone else seemed to be getting recruiter email, but not I. Present day, I could really use paid work, but my LinkedIn says "Gentleman of Leisure".

It's not just the recruiters, it's the lazy one-size-force-fits-all hiring process that employers deploy.

The problem is that finding the right people is about sussing out weak signals (meta-abilities), but the four-to-seven-round interview process allows only the most obviously conformant ones to filter through. And that creates a nice juicy target that can be gamed pretty easily. Cue the leetcodemaxxing hustler who maintains multiple remote jobs.

And that feeds back into the recruiting universe, because now the mercenary recruiter has to play a high variance portfolio-maximization game... i.e. they are fated to "spray and pray".

I recently had a recruiter that only wanted to talk via phone and would only give me updates by phone. They didn't listen so I told them I was no longer looking. No job is worth that hassle to me (especially in a heatwave).

Even if the job description screams that I am the perfect fit, if things repeatedly go wrong it could also mean that, maybe, it's not a good fit and the job description match is somewhat coincidental. 1 example (I'm sure all of us have maaany stories like this). There's this company that ghosted me a few years back after I went through all the interview steps (it was 4 or 5 rounds for a total of 7.5 hours time spent at my end), which I believed went well. I found this really disappointing and stupid as it appeared to me I could have been good for them. What happened in the meantime: • the same company re-contacted me via their internal recruiters several times (first time was 2/3 weeks after being ghosted), I counted this happened 6 times (at intervals of few months) then I stopped counting, we're probably at ~15 now. In the first "next" intention I told them of the initial experience and I gave availability to 1) provide feedback 2) maybe have a next round to reassess anything that they want to reassess (one - and only one - of the "next" recruiters was open enough to share that in the final interview with management, somebody at their end had concerns with my communication style - usually it's BS to say "I just don't like you" - but tech wise I completely nailed their interviews). Obviously this is impossible for them because this doesn't fit their process and not respecting it would mean the end of the universe as we know it. 🤣 • ... in the meantime, too much time elapsed and at more recent interactions with their "next next" recruiters, they lost track of any record of the interview a few years ago (or they just couldn't bother to check). • in the meantime (2) I had a chance to interact with people that worked there and make a better assessment of how things are there, I would never know without working there but I can make my judgement call on the difference between their really promising job ad and what people working there say. • so what now? They keep "discovering" me on various online places a few times every year, depending on what I need at the moment I either 1) ignore or decline 2) ask them a shitload of money in the initial interview (like, at least +20k than what I ask to other employers) and use them as punch bag/warm up session for (hopefully) more useful interview processes.

find the hiring manager / team. reach out to people on linked in. go around them

So here's a typical example. A person calls you - random number, random time of the day, enormously distracting. "Do you have five minutes?... bla-bla-bla..." I want to remain calm and nice. But I can't help it, I'd ask them: • "Why are you calling me?" • "I have this position, I think you'd be a good ..." • "I get that, but why exactly are you calling over the phone? If you have my number, that means you most likely have my email, why can't you send the email?" • "Oh, I sent you an email..." You check your mailbox. The email was sent some minutes ago. I hang up. Then later replied, "here's everything you need to know about me", and then added: • resume • visa requirements • location • willingness (or otherwise) to work hybrid/office/etc. • links to LinkedIn, GitHub, etc. Then I told them that I prefer them not calling me until HM or the technical sourcer of their client shows any interest. And If they really need to talk is to schedule a meeting (implied that it would have an agenda). And they still keep pestering about "I just need to talk to you..."

I mean, I understand - they may be legitimately trying to do their job, but why do they so often act unprofessional?

Is it just numbers game for them? Do they get paid by number of calls they made or something?

No idea. Years ago I had a recruiter call my company's customer service phone number asking for me. Like- why are you calling my current employer's number? If I was looking for a job (I wasn't), I wouldn't let my employer know!

it’s a numbers game on their side for sure. they are trying to fill the position. i’ve never been called about a dev spot. i’d set up 15 minutes and see what they have to say but i’d be skeptical

Almost always they talk about things that perfectly need no discussion because everything is already in the profile. I try to tell them "send my profile to your client, and if they'd be interested, then we would talk, but until then don't try to call me," but I don't know how to say all that without sounding like a jerk.

how often does this happen to you?

Normally, not very often, because normally I'm not actively looking for anything. When I am job searching - happens a lot.

i’ve never had a phone call in a job interview i don’t think

Recruiters are mostly lazy, fairly clueless, and have no respect for people's time. IME.

In 45 years in IT, I have met just two good recruiters. And hundreds of terrible ones.

So, just ignore them?

They like the phone because it's fast, doesn't require them spend time crafting an email, and doesn't leave a paper trail for you to call them out about later when things go off the rails.

if looking, i’d time box a call

I never answer the phone for a number I don't know. I send them to voicemail. If they leave a non-phone contact, i.e., email or enough info to find them on LinkedIn, I might follow up.

sure. but at this point if you are looking for a job and a recruiter keeps bothering you to do a call, i’d just schedule a call with a 15 minute hard limit.

My old Gmail account -- which I have not used in over ten years(!) and do not have listed anywhere -- gets a steady stream of recruiter emails (5-10 a day) from a specific subset of recruiters whose "Unsubscribe" links do not work 😞

Force them to put it all in writing.

Do not let them use the phone. They will say all sorts of crap and you'll have no way to contradict anything they say later on. They lie a lot.

(as you can probably tell, after 45 years in this industry, I've developed a fairly serious dislike of recruiters)

Alright, here's what I sent to another "five minutes of your time request": _ Look! I told you already - I do not want, do not need, and am not obligated to talk to you over the phone at this point. I don't know for how long you've been doing this work, but I'm telling you - this is highly unprofessional. When I said: "schedule a meeting" I implied to have some agenda in place. But like I already noted - there is none, because everything you need to know you already have, we have nothing to discuss. I value my own time, I want to value yours, but you need to get your shit together and act professionally. Share my profile with your client, if they're interested, then we'd discuss next steps. Don't think you're the only "I just need five minutes of your time" person - I have dozens of such requests every single day. What makes you think you're somewhat special?

Haha... yeah, that's about what they deserve, IMO. I wish recruiters would collectively get their s**t together...

That would be one enormous pile...