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#jobs-discuss
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2022-05-18
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Aleksander21:05:33

I wonder if current turmoil in the tech market might help Clojure. Instead of scaling companies ditching Clojure because they can't hire fast enough, companies needing less people doing more :thinking_face:

respatialized21:05:51

I would really hate for my favorite programming language to gain a reputation as a labor saving device and pretext for layoffs, tbh

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Martynas Maciulevičius07:05:36

Could you talk more about this "current turmoil"? How current is it? Why should it change the tools they use?

Aleksander10:05:22

Current as in ongoing. Becoming more visible over last few weeks. Stock of tech growth companies declining 60-90%. VCs insisting on positive net income.

Aleksander10:05:11

Companies announcing hiring freezes and some suggesting layoffs are coming.

Aleksander10:05:02

If that was a longer lasting change and not a blip that could mean the end of tech companies getting large investments to hire more and more people on the promise of future growth

Martynas Maciulevičius10:05:51

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Could you put in some research or at least some news articles? All of this sounds like an opinion. VC guys decided to leave a company that was my first job but I didn't do these conclusions.

Aleksander10:05:40

the 'it might increase Clojure popularity' part is my hypothesis, no proofs whatsoever here

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:03

Alright. Well I don't have much data to share but what I know is that demoralized person is more vulnerable than non-demoralized one. These articles mean that if you don't know what you're doing you may get into trouble. But that was true even before these articles showed up. 🤷

Aleksander11:05:54

and also crypto imploding might have consequences for the wider world: https://archive.ph/RhKLn

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:35

I think that crypto implosion is at least partially driven by Russia's war. They look for escape routes and crypto could be one of them. But that's a speculation.

Aleksander11:05:13

That would drive the prices up, no?

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:04

No, that would drive US to do a regulation on crypto and scare everybody. And this would drive the market down because people/VCs that took out loans on risky crypto projects won't be able to pay them back.

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:55

Also there is the phenomenon called "Private Equity funds" which try to squeeze out the companies to make top-valuation and then sell it to somebody. I've read in a book that this is how companies like Tesla are created. They max-out all possible PR things and then underdeliver. And then somebody has to pick up the tab once it goes bankrupt.

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:05

Also one of the driving factors would be basic inflation. Because from the start of Corona we had quite a substantial increase in prices in my country. For instance in my country (LT) flat prices have more than doubled in the past five years (2.5x). So corona and Russian war are not doing any favors here. But that doesn't mean that there won't be good opportunities. It doesn't mean that at all.

Martynas Maciulevičius11:05:52

Oh right. Also imagine that leg fingers of American economy were chopped off: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ut0fgp/study_shows_money_lost_from_the_companies_leaving/ Yes, it hurts Russia. But it also hurts America. Probably that's one more driver of these VC articles. And as an added "benefit" it reduces the happiness of VCs. So in my view this turmoil is "meh".

Daniel Craig16:05:14

So I'll venture to address your original question: at my company, they haven't been able to hire as many engineers as they've wanted to and the market in the us is tight - roughly 2 open positions per job seeker. However I don't think this helps Clojure, because hiring fear on top of the scarcity of Clojure programmers is enough to scare some companies off of adopting Clojure

Daniel Craig16:05:30

I think crypto is totally unrelated

lsenjov03:05:03

We banked the opposite direction: clojure is easy to learn, and has pros that we'll cop the learning time to get good engineers

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lsenjov03:05:10

We're not trying to hire clojure engineers specifically (although that's also excellent), just functional engineers

lsenjov03:05:54

So far it's been far harder to hire infra engineers than full stack clojure developers