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Lukas Domagala19:01:58

Are there any resources on working as a full-time contractor from Europe (Germany) for a USA based company? I only have a vague idea what that would mean for my taxes, healthcare and salary


If it's specifically contract work via some company (e.g. Estonia offers excellent e-residency that allows you to easily open a company there and work through it), you'll have to pay: • Taxes for the company's income (depends on where the company is registered - in Estonia it's 20% on distributed dividends and 0% on paid salaries and other business expenses) • Taxes and duties imposed on your own income (depends on where you're a tax resident and potentially on where that company is)


Some countries allow their tax residents to become sole proprietors or similar "legal entities with an asterisk" where there's no proper company. But the deviation between countries is huge - all depends on where you're a resident (and in this case, maybe even a citizen).


Healthcare is local. It will depend on where you re resident.


Taxes too to a large extent. You basically are going to be your own employee and the company in th US a client. So you have to think about your holidays, pension, and other potential leave (parental, sick, kid sick leave etc), and ultimately account for that in the amount you bill. The tldr: it's complicated, messy but you have a lot of control.


Some companies will suggest you use a third party, local, company that can act as proxy (can't remember the name in English). So you are essentially an employee, it's hassle free, but they do take a cut (obviously).


The fact the client is in the us or some other country doesn't matter so much, it's all going to be the same more or less.


Lastly, sole proprietorship can be more heavily taxed than a regular company depending on the country, if you go that route make sure you choose the best format, the difference can just be a little paperwork and some money to put on the company bank account initially (that becomes available anyway).


Doesn't have to be that messy - I'm sure it's the case for many if not all other countries, but in Estonia I simply let a thirdparty accounting company do all the job. They do charge me, but it's a relatively small fixed amount each month - doesn't depend on how much I earn. All the tax and dividends reports, necessary payments, whatever else the Estonian government might need, including having a physical address in Estonia - it's all on them. I deal only with actual invoices to actual clients, with subsequent dividend/salary distribution, and with local taxes in the country where I'm a tax resident. But in general, I would recommend either biting a bullet and reading all the relevant tax laws or asking some lawyer for a consultation. Things can become tricky. Just as an example - if you're a citizen in Russia, have been within the country for more than 6 months in the past 12 months, and became a director of a foreign company in that 12 months period, then you have to report a lot to the Russian government and potentially pay them a levy from all the incomes of that company.


Yeah, starting with an accountant is a must


I have done that for the past 10+ years as well. It's a lot more work than being an employee for sure, at least from Switzerland and Sweden


Another recommendation - find where freelancers/contractors from your country talk to each other, and just ask there. They will have the most apt information. I can't really recommend anything specific, but when I used to do freelancing via TopTal, they had a nice Slack server with channels basically for every country. Should be possible to find other such places.


When I arrived in Sweden I basically asked an accountant to hold my hand through all the setup and advise on what's the most efficient. Money well spent


companies usually use PEOs for countries where they have many contractors


Yes that's it. It has another name in the UK, "umbrella company". "Société de portage salarial" in french


I did use one for ~ a year in the past, that was a mixed bag. At least in my case paying an accountant to setup everything initially + do all the yearly admin was way cheaper, and you get a lot more control over insurances, pensions & whatnot. There are also other advantages to running your own thing, like deductibles on a lot of things.


but I guess it's quite different from country to country

Lukas Domagala23:01:33

Thanks for the discussion. I’ll have to see if it’s worth all the extra work and complications even though the job does sound interesting


@U02EMBDU2JU I’ve been doing this for a few years now. My setup is basically: • “Selbstständig”, i.e. have a business of which you’re sole propietor • Invoice the US company without any Umsatzsteuer • Tell the healthcare company what you expect to earn and they’ll tell you how much to pay (maxes out at around 900€ if you earn more than 5000€) • Do the same for Gesetzliche Rentenversicherung as you’ll be required to pay into it if more than 5/6 of your income comes from one client. • You’ll have to file taxes like a business (profit/loss etc) which you can do yourself or pay an accountant for. Overall it’s not terribly complex but definitely more work than being employed 🙂

Lukas Domagala16:01:44

@U050TNB9F thank you! don’t you have problems with “Scheinselbstständigkeit”? I’ve read that people were running into that when working for just one company.


Yeah, its definitely a thing but IDK, if the Finanzamt wants to chase down a US company to enforce that they can try that.. You’ll be required to pay into the “Gesetzliche Rentenversicherung” due to this though.

Lukas Domagala17:01:21

ah so you have to pay both your own and the employers part? makes sense. so i’m guessing i’d need to make 1.5 - 2 times the employment rate + what ever I feel the “not really employed” risk is? Thank you again for the info. I didn’t want to go to an accountant before I’m even sure the job makes any sense for me.


yes, you should definitely charge a significant premium

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… which makes me wonder. In Germany the employer usually pays 50% of health care and retirement up to a limit. How is that in the US and when you think of a, say, 100k salary does that include those amounts or are they “on top”?


in the US you often talk about “total comp” in addition to “salary”. Sometimes they can be identical, but usually not. Sometimes benefits aren’t really considered in your total comp (like health insurance). But employers can certainly advertise 100% cost coverage, employer match to 401k, stock grants/options, etc


companies will often brag about things like subsidizing gym memberships, perks, food budget, whatever.


When I was at Macromedia, they had a bunch of free concierge services for employees so you didn't have to run errands during the work day. Mostly this stuff is intended to keep you at your desk and in the building as much as possible.


Thanks. I found it quite challenging to come up with the right ask in the past because it’s all so hard to compare. Right now I earn a good salary if you just look at the number but I’m also paying for 100% of health care and 100% retirement so the “real salary” is much lower.


(Happy to share specifics in private if anyone is curious)


I’ve heard the rule of thumb is as a contractor double what you would expect as a regular employee to handle the costs that can crop up


I've never heard concierge services as a perk, that's interesting :thinking_face:


friend at apple has really great concierge service, phenomenal relocation assistance, lots of perks and these all go towards some notion of total comp


Good evening, I was wandering if there is some valuable statistics about clojure trend in the market. Is it growing or not? Are there more than last year or less job offers? Etc... Thanks a lot 🙂 I'm learning the language for personal interest but I'd like also to understand something about the future of this language in the job market looking at the current trend.


No stats to offer up but anecdotally, well-funded startups here in the US are hiring developers with zero Clojure experience and training them on the job.

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Interesting.. so do you think more companies are starting to use it? And usually they hire also for remote?


For sure. The Clojure website list but a few, but they are (based in Cincinnati, OH where I am) is the largest grocery chain in the US and they've been using Clojure for at least 5, probably more, years now. and are two more that are Clojure shops. The former hired my first developer away from us. Most all of the job postings I've seen accepted remote. Two of our 3 hires are or have been remote.

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> (based in Cincinnati, OH where I am) is the largest grocery chain in the US and they've been using Clojure for at least 5, probably more, years now. Nice, my sibling is a Kroger regular in TX. I was suitably dazzled by the spectacle that US stores are, when I visited them from India. I'll tell them my favourite language helps bring their groceries Clojure to home :)

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Also wondering if FP is a thing at big box retailers? Walmart Labs is famously big on Clojure too. IIRC HEB actively hires for Haskell.


@U01J8BEDW0J I feel you'll get a sense for some of the active job market by searching for Clojure in the "Who's Hiring" posts on HN Also look at and And should give you an aggregate sense of some of the market.


Thanks a lot

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I've seen a large increase in job openings over the last year or so, not just on my job board but in general. For a while I myself wondered about the language's viability, but right now I'm more optimistic than I've ever been


Optimistic isn't even exactly the right word because it places too much emphasis on the future. The present reality is good, too

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… which makes me wonder. In Germany the employer usually pays 50% of health care and retirement up to a limit. How is that in the US and when you think of a, say, 100k salary does that include those amounts or are they “on top”?