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I am writing it just to let you better understand the market of hiring in 2019. Not complaining, seriously 🙂 Maybe I need to share some kind of pre-goodbye 😉 I really love Clojure and community. The game changed for me as an European Union citizen live in Poland. I can’t find a good remote work in 2019 in Clojure / ClojureScript. There is only a few job offer and a huge trend to not hire remotely if you are not from US / UK. It is forcing me to start looking a job as DevOps / Product Owner / Operations and other positions which I like too and people will hire remotely. I will miss so much my ( ) after so many years. But I will use Clojure / ClojureScript for all my hobby projects probably 🙂 But who knows what job will bring me tomorrow. Market is changing guys, worth to notice it.


@kwladyka Don't give up altogether -- keep an eye open and see what opportunities might come along. Sometimes it takes time.


Keep learning Clojure in your personal time so you're better prepared if a work opportunity appears -- and always remember that sometimes the way to become a Clojure/Script developer is to introduce it where you work, slowly, quietly, for the little things.


Thank you. I don’t give up, but I see it is not efficient anymore. I can find a work relocating to UK, but it is not a thing what I want to do.


Where I work used to be a ColdFusion shop before I introduced Clojure -- so you never know what's possible!


I wouldn't want to relocate to the UK either, with Brexit, and I'm originally from there!


The programming language isn't everything, but it's indeed hard to find fully remote work in Europe. Some companies won't even allow you to work a few hours from home. Most are a bit more tolerant but most of the times one day a week working from home is accepted. Two intakes next week, for one of them I may use Clojure, as it's for an internal tool, which will be pretty much a one men job.


I guess it depends on the country, I found the opposite.


> The programming language isn’t everything Clojure is everything 😛 😉


Fully remote work is hard because of tax and labor laws etc.


Yes that’s usually the problem. It's easier to setup shop as a contractor/independent if you want to work for a company abroad. The admin is then on you and you have to think about extra costs when you bill.


I did this for a company based in Australia, when I was based in the UK. It took me a few hours to create a company online and figure out how much an account and indemnity insurance cost. The only weird part was I had to give the employer an hourly rate, so had to do a bit more math. If you want to operate in Europe (regardless of location) then you can apply for an e-residency in countries like Estonia


@ have you applied for e-Estonia? I'm very curious about it since they introduced it but never met anyone with actual experience to share.


Not yet. I first heard about it at a (sensible) debate on Brexit. There was a team from Estonia at the Devoxx UK conference the other week and I had a quick chat with them. It all seems pretty straight forward. If I do contracting again it seems very worthwhile. They have a decent banking system too.


One can try converting the value proposition from "hire a remote worker" to "engage into international commerce with a small agency". - Incorporate under the most robust legal form money can buy - Have some smaller clients - Work in a private office in a respectable place, not from home - Hire interns, and eventually actual employees That would keep things legal and legal-looking, which is just as important I see how this could be a somewhat disproportionate effort just to keep the ( ) dream alive, but I think it's something you can do, particularly when you have some experience and could work in the UK for at least a season, accumulating funds and sharpening the chops. cc/ @kwladyka


As someone who would soon be hiring, the thing that worries me the most about remote workers is the process of onboarding them in a company that is otherwise not remote friendly. I could turn the eng team into remote-first but what about everyone else?


Perhaps remote-friendly is not the right word, it’s mostly not remote-capable or remote-experienced. I’ve been working fully remotely for 9 years before going back to an office, but others do not and suddenly communications become more difficult.


I wonder if it would be easier if people come to the office a couple of weeks in the first month, then a week every second month or so.


@vemv Yes, it seems like there’s quite a few small Clojure agencies around. It’s an interesting value proposition — I’m not sure what the tradeoffs are though. (from the point of view of the employer)


> but I think it’s something you can do Sure I can, but while I have wife etc. I am not sure this investment to relocate to UK to maybe get a work later remotely and could back to Poland make sense. Probably not. I love Clojure but considering live it is not worth it. It doesn’t make sense even from economical point of view. I counted it very carefully. The point is I have experience and skills, but I can’t get a good Clojure work in 2019 because I live in Poland (mainly not live in US / UK) 😉


> I wonder if it would be easier if people come to the office a couple of weeks in the first month, then a week every second month or so. In each job I talk to people 1on1 (only 1on1 works) remotely one by one and it is ok


of course not about job 😉


I see! That's perfectly reasonable. It came to mind now, I've never secured two Clojure contracts in a row (I'm at my 4th). Freelancing has this feast-or-famine component, right?


How long are these contracts usually? Weeks/months/years? Full time or part time? Exclusive or can have more than one client simultaneously?


full-time, length depending on project / our relationship, I was never asked for exclusivity in-between those Clojure contracts, I had to find Ruby or node.js ones


my last had 2 years (my decision to change) and second half a year but ended unexpected for not my fault


but I always do it for not defined time in contract


Thanks for the help! Be on the lookout at #jobs for a post from me - hopefully in the coming weeks there will be something there :)