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#jobs-discuss
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2018-10-26
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lilactown00:10:07

ReasonML 😛

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bja04:10:31

@seancorfield I took a job doing systems/infrastructure. It felt kinda bad that I finally got a call back with a remote Clojure offer after I already started at the new job.

andrea.crotti09:10:27

Elixir if I stay on the backend, ReasonML / Elm if I switch more to frontend stuff maybe

andrea.crotti09:10:57

definitively not Scala, that's for sure

gklijs09:10:23

Something with rust, either back-end or web-assembly probably. But for now I'm stuck with Java..

dm309:10:47

Good team, sense of direction, management which has a clue => good product. Absence of these can’t be fixed with a nicer language, at least for me

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shan10:10:25

what sort of questions would you ask in a interview to help identify these points in a company?

dm310:10:57

It’s hard if you’re interviewing for a non-management position. You have to be able to talk to “business” people - much easier in a small company. Have to understand the product, the business model, whether software is acknowledged as the crucial part of the business. What’s the employee churn rate, what does a common day look like from an employee in a position similar you’re to what you’re being hired to do.

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seancorfield17:10:21

Yeah, a lot of people tend to forget that an interview should be a two-way process and that you are interviewing the company, just as much as they are interviewing you.

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seancorfield17:10:13

(but my question was intended to focus on just the tech, to see where folks would turn their attention if Clojure jobs were no longer available -- most people start by looking for "X jobs" for some tech X 🙂 )

Eric Ervin23:10:49

When the interview process is a mess, I feel like I've learned about the managers.

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j0ni18:10:22

I think I'd aim for Rust or Haskell

bballant18:10:56

re "next best tech", I did leave a really awesome Clojure job and now I work primarily in Haskell. No way I would have done it to work in Java, Scala, or Kotlin.

Eric Ervin23:10:39

I saw that language move on Github and it made me go hmmm...

seancorfield18:10:32

That's cool. But I'd imagine Haskell jobs are even rarer than Clojure jobs?

dpsutton18:10:36

i left a c# job for clojure

seancorfield18:10:59

I took a ColdFusion job and turned it into a Clojure job :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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allentiak00:10:37

Cool! How did you pull that off? Could you please elaborate (at least a little bit) on this point?

seancorfield01:10:04

I've been senior enough in companies for the last couple of decades to be able to either drive or at least strongly influence technology direction. When I was Macromedia's Senior Software Architect, I introduced an MQ message hub and coordinated changes across every division of the company to route all sales and support information through that system, and I drove their selection of web frameworks and coding standards etc as well. At World Singles Networks, I was hired in because of my (ColdFusion) experience -- which started at Macromedia after they acquired Allaire back in 2001! -- but introduced Scala as an experiment to attempt to solve a particularly thorny problem the company had had for a while, and then introduced Clojure as an alternative for that problem solution and encouraged other developers to learn it too.

ag03:10:02

World Singles still uses Clojure, right?

seancorfield03:10:12

About 83K lines of it, yeah 🙂

dpsutton18:10:13

that seems to be a tough part: after you've been clojure for a while it can be tough to get it back into other styles of programming

bballant18:10:56

Yeah, I didn't go out and seek a Haskell job. It found me 🙂.

the2bears18:10:23

From a recruiter recently, "Would Java be a deal breaker?"

the2bears18:10:26

Well yeah...

the2bears18:10:40

After saying I happily left it behind for Clojure 🙂

bballant18:10:04

Ha! funny how they preempted it: "Is shoveling shit a deal breaker?"

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mattly18:10:30

this and compensation expectations are the first things I get out of the way with anyone who wants me to come shovel shit for them

seancorfield18:10:36

@the2bears That tends to be my response to recruiters coming at me with Java jobs...

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mattly18:10:25

I especially love the ruby people on this front because they think that somehow Ruby would be more appealing to me than clojure

mattly18:10:42

and simply cannot understand why it isn't

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seancorfield19:10:54

@mattly That's partly because a lot of people come from Ruby to Clojure and they see similarities (that non-Ruby people often do not).

mattly19:10:23

yeah I know

mpenet19:10:31

Erlang job market seems booming. I get tons of inquiries for it lately. Prolly an elixir side effect.

mattly19:10:46

elixir is definitely booming

mattly19:10:54

I know a lot of ex-ruby people headed that way

mpenet19:10:58

I guess being based in sweden doesn't hurt either

taylor19:10:38

I've gone from a 100% Clojure job to a 50/50 Clojure/Ruby job and I'm not enjoying the Ruby half very much

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jstew20:10:23

I’m at 100% ruby right now. I’d love to be doing 50/50 🙂

arnaud_bos21:10:38

Interesting question: My "next best tech" for my next job/project would probably be Kotlin or Elixir. Two years ago I went from 100% Clojure to Java 7 + Spring 3 and a depression 😆 (many factors were involved obviously, not just Java) Now working on an interesting greenfield project using Java>=8 + Vavr + Spring Reactor I have to admit I'm doing fine. We're slowly introducing Kotlin in new services and I'm lurking to eventually add Clara rules as a dependency on one particular service 😈

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sharkdance 1
fellshard22:10:34

I know that depression feeling. Struggling with bad tools all day can drain your ability to think in the evenings, too, turning otherwise manageable problems into a tailspin fast. I had that kind of thing combined with a heavy-duty fly-in fly-out five-days-a-week travel project, on two separate occasions. Never again; it is not good for my health.

jstew21:10:27

Elixir is pretty good coming from a Ruby background. It doesn’t match clj or Java in performance but does great for certain things.