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Hey folks! It looks like you are already discussing the article I posted in #remote-jobs. Do folks generally think it’s better to take the same approach that DHH is, to not factor location into people’s pay?


I agree with him. Why does location have to matter how much I get paid, if I do the same job someone in, say New York, does?


I think what matters is your perspective. Either you agree to a salary our you do not. Its up to you to make an offer have a minimum baseline.


DHH intent is egalitarian, but it's not egalitarian to let a folk live like a rich person in e.g. Bali, while the actual SF guy with an "equal" salary does just OK with a regular (or pretty-good, w/e) standard of living


and it would be barely surprising if DHH's policy backfires a year later


I agree with you @sveri and as an employee or subcontractor that’s the approach I’ve always taken. An employer’s perception of market rate is one thing, I always set some bounds around my salary, and that’s what they paid or decided not to.


I think the employer also has some responsibility to being transparent and fair, most negotiations seem like a battle. I’m quite fortunate to do work for a company that is very honest and fair about salary.


And someone who’s been paying subcontractors to write Clojure (and only hopes to increase the number of folks we work with this year), I’m trying to understand what people expect and discuss the ethics.


@roberto What do you think makes them fair?


And even though they have offered more, I have not felt the need to push for a higher fee (I work remotely). But just knowing that they are fair makes a big difference.


For example, I only increased my fees last year, after 3 years of them asking me to ask for a higher rate. Since I’m a contractor, they can not just offer me a higher rate, I have to request for it. And they were the ones who kept insisting I should.


With previous clients/`Employers`, it has always been a fight


a related topic is SaaS pricing. 50 dollars/month for CI might make sense in the USA, not so much in other countries


things don't have an absolute dollar value, they have value in a context. the day I launch my SaaS I'll totally have per-country pricing! adjusted to cost of living 😉


During my studies I had a side job where we agreed for a fixed monthly pay. Afterwards I wanted to keep on working for him as a freelancer. He did not want to pay more than before and I declined. So while one month the pay was ok, the next month it stopped being ok and all that changed were my expectations.


@vemv I think Eric Normand does that now.


@vemv That’s an interesting point. How is per country SaaS pricing any different than a COL adjustment for developers?


I’m not too keen on per country SaaS pricing. The cost of delivering the service is still the same no matter where you live.


Offer / demand is different. You can not compare SaaS pricing or pricing in general with salary. You lower / raise the price until you are satisfied with your income, no matter if you are offering a SaaS or negotiationg for your salary. Lets say I work remote and live in the US. Now after half a year of remote work I move to India for whatever reason. Would my employer lower my salary now?


@vemv that sounds like a nightmare to manage lol


Although to your earlier point about DHH’s plan failing in a year, I don’t see why it would. They’re a remote team and people living in SF are making that choice.


they could similarly choose to live somewhere cheaper (doesn’t have to be Bali, obviously, there are cheap places to live in CA too)


Hm, the more I think about it. I mean, there is targeted advertising already. I wonder if amazon does targeted pricing, not only per country, but maybe per account?


> You lower / raise the price until you are satisfied with your income, no matter if you are offering a SaaS or negotiationg for your salary. by doing this you remove yourself from most world markets, which can give you interesting money and organic growth


@vemv you mean as a SaaS offerer or contractor?


both 🙂


Then I am not sure what "interesting" money is?


interesting as SaaS -> "free" money for essentially no work (just AWS costs) interesting as contractor -> enough to make a good living. or a side source of income


but thats what I meant, I adjust my minimun salary to my demands as a contractor and not to what some company thinks I deserve.


but you are talking about establishing a single expected salary (an "absolute dollar value" as I mentioned earlier)


I wouldn't mind a lot if I moved SF -> Bali and employer warned me that for long-term stays, rate should decrease. But that's just me maybe! I can imagine it's a hard point to transmit (already defended in this channel the other day. won't rehash my old argumentation)


I did not mean to attack you, just expressing my opinion, diversity is something good 😉


of course, I never interpreted it that way 🙂 simply concluding my contribution to the discussion which was getting a bit old to me


any recommendations on remote-friendly (or chicago, usa area if the stars align) consulting firm for a cljs/reactnative project on android and ios?


out of curiosity, how is real-world mobile-cljs development experience like? is it smooth? is tooling mature enough?


I did a PoC to verify that my needs would be met by react native using reagent/re-frame. The tooling via figwheel/android emulator/react-native/chrome/emacs seemed okay enough. It took me a bit of fumbling to understand the pieces as someone who hasn't done day to day clojurescript work since we've had luxuries like source maps. In short, the tooling is decent enough that I'm willing to farm out development for it and then maintain it once initial version is released.


thanks for the experience report! appreciated


You might check out I believe they’ve done somer projects with that stack.