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@andrewboltachev Paying for contract services (especially through an intermediary like Upwork) is very different to hiring a full-time employee tho’.


Even if you are hiring remotely within the USA across different states, you have federal tax and state tax differences to deal with, and you can often run into issues with benefits across state lines (for example, small group health insurance often has to has enough employees within any given state pool in order to be applied, and you can’t always then get coverage for other employees in different states). For larger companies, that’s much less of an issue.


got it. so, it's irreducible


i.e. would be always quite a bit of paperwork to do (and to get it right)


sort of related question--at clojure/conj is there a structured job fair or something similar? I think I’m a good candidate for a diversity scholarship so it could be pretty cheap for me to go. (still in uni)


this. news spread fast. strangely, a closer world via better communication makes it more separated in the long run physically, as top countries realize they get more immigrants and start defending their borders. USA is not an exception here.


As a former immigrant, now US citizen myself, I am certainly in favor of a process that makes it easier for companies to hire across international borders!


"former"? we're all former immigrants here dude, loud n proud. :)


Hmm, a job fair at a conference sounds useful to organize! I know a large company that has a Clojure-using tech team. They were apparently desperate for hires, but oddly incapable of doing the most basic steps to solve it. (So I simply got on slack & google groups to find people.)


Generally, one or more sponsors have booths where they are actively interested in talking with job seekers. I can’t recall if there was a job bulletin board per se, but I imagine the organizers would be receptive to such a suggestion. Finally, one could organize an unsession on the topic.


@seancorfield Another option is to create a legal entity in that employee's jurisdiction. Which is likely easier getting them to apply for a VISA though it moves the burden to another department.


That's how I've done it in the past


I kinda think there needs to be some aggressiveness about matchmaking people & teams, like collecting leads or something. 😛 A Ministry of Clojure Jobs. People are often just not getting matched. I don’t get it.


@trevor Yes, although that isn’t without its own challenges (and, again, is much easier for larger companies than very small ones, esp. if you would end up setting up a new legal entity for every non-US employee! 🙂 )


Out of curiosity, do companies "hire" developers from abroad by bringing them on as contractors with monthly rates, as opposed to salaried employee, instead? What are the disadvantages of going this route for either party?


My experience only covers hourly freelance work across borders — where US companies generally expect you to invoice in USD and be paid in USD, preferably without too much banking hassle for them (EFT is pretty much the only option, unless you can take a USD check overseas and cash it).


Working remote and being paid in checks...


Interestingly, once I moved to the US and was then doing freelance in the other direction, non-US companies were also usually happy to be invoiced in USD and to pay (by EFT mostly) in USD — except for a company in Canada that insisted on paying me by check, drawn on a local (Canadian) branch of a US bank… which my own bank then wouldn’t accept! 🙂


Here in the developed part of the world, checks haven't been seen since the last millennium.


Paying freelancers by check is still the norm here (in the USA) as far as I can tell from my various freelancer friends 😐 The US banking system is… antiquated…


Where I live we have this concept of bank accounts which you can transfer money between. Even when said accounts are in different banks.


And in different countries.


I remember it fondly from when I lived in Europe 🙂


Back when England was part of Europe, that is…


Oh, I live in Norway, which is not part of Europe, so this is not an EU thing.


But it's probably closely related to communism since it's not found in the US.


I don't understand, what's the problem with transferring money across borders? High fees?


Sending money to others is communist. The goal here in the US is to accumulate all the money for yourself and become a rich capitalist. That’s when you go on to create jobs for the proletariat.


But really, “ACH” (automated clearinghouse) transfers are common but not super accessible to a non-business. Another problem is it tends to take 2 business days to send money that way. “Same day” ACH is coming .. maybe late next year we’ll even be able to send money by 5pm.


There are other alternatives for sending money quickly, but they tend to be non-centralized and confusing.


Digital currencies for the win.


Even written in clojurescript 🙂