Fork me on GitHub
#jaunt
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2016-04-06
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eraserhd19:04:14

It’s the thing I’ve always wanted ❤️

arrdem19:04:29

oshit @bronsa is in here 😛

eraserhd19:04:41

So, I’m about to rant because I can’t help it. If slack has a mute feature, you might need it.

arrdem19:04:57

Go for it. I ranted for about 18 months before Jaunt became a thing.

eraserhd19:04:07

And my rant also can be prefixed with “oshit @bronsa is in here” but. Can’t help it.

eraserhd19:04:48

I think that clojure-in-clojure, tools.analyzer.* are kind of doomed because of the contribution process.

eraserhd19:04:19

They are “stop-the-world” kinds of integrations, the way it is currently managed. We can’t seem to move to something new piece-wise.

eraserhd19:04:37

(also unification with ClojureScript)

eraserhd19:04:55

I understand the need for stability. But sheesh.

eraserhd19:04:38

I’d love just to pick off some Java piece that doesn’t need to be Java and make it clojure, test it, and make a PR.

eraserhd19:04:07

I’m not sure I’m making sense. But need to rant. Thank you.

arrdem19:04:42

Fair. Jaunt is entirely a protest against the Clojure contribution process and I'll make no bones about that.

arrdem19:04:35

As to self-hosting as a goal... I honestly kinda agree with Rich here, self-hosting isn't really a goal for me.

eraserhd19:04:13

Not specifically a goal for me, but less splintery and more target platforms are goals for me.

eraserhd19:04:33

I signed the contributor agreement specifically because people were talking about LLVM targeting, which never came to be.

arrdem19:04:45

Yeah. People talk about native targeting, or unifying CLJ and CLJS... idk. I'm content on the JVM, my thing is that I think the language and the compiler could be meaningfully polished in some ways which won't survive the contrib process and so Jaunt is my own sandbox where I can try to polish as such.

arrdem19:04:28

For instance my work to date in Jaunt is pretty much entirely focused around improving warnings and improving the code climate of the implementation.

onealexharms19:04:56

Are you planning to keep the language in sync with Clojure?

bronsa19:04:56

@eraserhd: FWIW I'm significantly unhappy and frustrated with the clojure contribution process myself

bronsa19:04:12

probably more than most :)

eraserhd19:04:15

@bronsa: I would imagine

arrdem19:04:33

@onealexharms: Maybe is the best answer I can give.

arrdem19:04:08

At this point I'm quite deliberately on 0.2.0-SNAPSHOT, because I don't even know if in the long term I want to keep Clojure's same namespace structure.

arrdem19:04:28

Lots of room for questioning the status quo and exploring, but compatibility is for now a goal.

arrdem19:04:55

Breaking changes are and will be well documented/considered. Unless they're in the Java implementation which is a free fire zone of me refactoring everything.

arrdem19:04:31

Source compatibility not binary compat is the goal at least for 1.0

arrdem19:04:33

Yeah. I'm waaaay happier now that I can take satisfaction in incrementally improving Jaunt as an end in and of itself rather than feeling frustrated because I know that whatever change I make will at best not go anywhere for a year.

bronsa19:04:18

I used to maintain my own fork of clojure with tons of patches applied a while ago too - - unfortunately I don't think anymore that maintaining a fork that nobody is likely to use is worth it

bronsa19:04:45

@arrdem: 1 year is oddly optimistic :)

arrdem19:04:49

Honestly I look at Jaunt as a piece of performance/protest art. I don't care if nobody uses it, I take enough satisfaction in just improving this or that to justify a little bit of effort every day.

arrdem19:04:01

When I go full time at twitter it'll definitely slow down a lot.

bronsa19:04:09

wait till your colleagues waste two days trying to figure out a bug you fixed 3years ago

bronsa19:04:17

That's fun

bronsa19:04:30

(happened twice already)

arrdem19:04:07

Which is why I want to keep Jaunt source compatible, so someone else can drop it in in dev, get good warnings/lintings/help and go right back to CLJ.

arrdem19:04:37

Also if I really break anything I loose a whole lot of value in terms of my being able to just grab a Clojure library and get back to work.

eraserhd19:04:41

@arrdem @bronsa Are either of you going to Clojure/west? @onealexharms and I are.

arrdem19:04:05

I won't be. I don't think Nicola is either.

arrdem19:04:58

I was joking for a while about making Jaunt/West shirts and going to the con, but I can't justify the money/time while I'm still in school.

onealexharms19:04:29

How about LambdaConf or Moonconf?

arrdem19:04:58

LambdaConf is during my first week at Twitter. Haven't looked at Moonconf.

bronsa19:04:13

I'm located in London ATM, clojure/west is a bit too far

eraserhd19:04:16

@onealexharms: we should talk about making Avi use jaunt instead of official clojure

onealexharms19:04:38

@eraserhd: I have been thinking the same. I just now realized there’s an #C0F4MB8AY channel, and joined it.

arrdem19:04:42

I'd love to have someone running Jaunt snapshots in test, I would advise against it for prod tho 😛

onealexharms19:04:06

We can all be weirdos out on the fringes 😄

eraserhd19:04:20

Avi has pretty close to 100% test coverage. As long as we get non-snapshot versions (so they don’t change out from under us), it’ll be stable.

onealexharms19:04:34

Given that we’re separating spec and implementation, we can run against both, and Avi can be a test for Jaunt

onealexharms19:04:41

Avi is beautiful 😄 — I know, off topic. #C0F4MB8AY

eraserhd20:04:39

@arrdem: How do you feel about patches removing commented-out code?

arrdem20:04:04

@eraserhd: kill it all. I've got a few sitting on the fn metadata pr.

arrdem20:04:32

which I will be finishing and merging as soon as I get spacemacs working...

onealexharms20:04:33

Oooh, he’s been so so mad about not being allowed to do that 😄

arrdem20:04:43

Seriously one of the first things I did when I started setting CI up was add whitespace linting. That's the reason I've been throwing all kindsa patches at cljfmt and rewrite-clj

arrdem20:04:07

It doesn't matter what the formatting or the code style is, it just has to be consistent