Clojurians Log v2

interesting perspective. i tend to assume that frameworks with elaborate website aesthetics are more fluff than substance. but my preferences generally aren't mainstream

@wei for most people the dealbreaker is the packaging (i.e. the first few interactions), not the substance. That's sad, but if packaging is more generally appealing, it attracts more people who will give the tech a chance and try it out.

that website is horrifically bad, wtf even is the value prop i have no idea, i think it's fast load times for e-commerce websites, they should probably put that above the fold not 5 pages down

anyway thanks for the feedback

I will state that we are years away, and millions of dollars of funding away, from being the product you are looking for. Remix is owned by Shopify an e-commerce unicorn with $2.5B annual revenue

I really do not like it when people give me feedback shaped like "you should be more like <billion dollar vc funded trash fire>", we are not building poop sticks for normies, we build hardcore infrastructure products for elite engineering teams

Cool demo, excellent work. I think the TL;DR of many of these comments is to improve the signal-to-noise ratio, so the value prop "pops"… • +1 for voiceover instead of captions, so the info isn't all text. There's a LOT to read, often simultaneously. Plus a voice can convey excitement as a bonus, and you're a good speaker. • Less distracting music. Something that expresses the "feeling" of being in flow and doing great work, but also fades into the background. Maybe youtube "coding flow lofi" type stuff. • An intuitive dataset. I'd suggest the Datomic MusicBrainz dataset, because going album → band → singer requires almost no parsing at all. Plus it's somewhat familiar to anyone who's learnt about datomic. • I'd also suggest a little more whitespace in the HTML, so e.g. checkboxes and labels are clearly grouped. Horizontally between the title / search / checkboxes, and vertically under each table. This helps with chunking the info. Hope this is helpful! And in case the music is your own playing, it's really good, just doesn't 100% fit the use-case 🙂

Q: If this was a 10 minute lightning talk (like "UIs are Streaming DAGs") rather than a twitter teaser format, would you be less likely to watch? I was hoping for this to be a 90 second video, current is 2m45, based on feedback I am not optimistic that the short format can work at all at our current product maturity. Maybe once there is no code on the screen ...

I'd absolutely watch the longer one, but you're trying to reach "elite engineering teams", not me. What's their sticking point? In 90 seconds you can say "this exists, and you can bang together backend apps really fast!". They've probably seen that promise before, and suspect there's too much magic. In 5 or 10 mins you can smash through a cool demo, but then address concerns, like the things Darrick asked. Your approach last time of anticipating questions was good. I think the longer one is probably more useful, so long as hackernews or whatever can hook the right people into watching it in the first place.

Agreed, would love to see a more generic domain teaser to show less-technical stakeholders at my company. (Trick is deciding on a domain that's generic enough everyone would understand it but still has interesting UIs to be built. I'm imagining Salesforce style CRM workflows, but 🤷)

yeah, the trouble is, what is a domain that lets us do this without introducing any new functions that hve to be coded and understood

it blows out into a talk length presentation quickly

does salesforce have a clojure api and starter data ?

Nothing well known enough to use, no

SQL sucks for a first demo because it doesn't navigate objects out of the box, we can navigate SQL entity graphs but it requires userland to specify the navigation, unless we use a java ORM

Generic CRM (leads, accounts, contacts, tasks, events, etc) is more what I had in mind, but I have no idea how generic that would actually be. Primary goal IMO would be to show creating individual dashboards for different roles that interact with the data in different ways.

Still, very difficult to make intuitive in a <5min video without the terms actually being defined.

T-Shirt demo as Hendrik mentioned is probably more intuitive. (product info, sales data, users)

Shopify GraphQL maybe? Haven't used it personally, but it'd have the object types well defined. Not sure how simple the GraphQL wrapper would be for the demo though.

GitHub GraphQL for that matter would be an interesting demo for developers

Exploring a Kubernetes cluster with their Java SDK would be an interesting developer demo too

Jira's got a Java SDK and a complex object graph to query 😆

A HAPI FHIR (medical records) wrapper would be extremely compelling for ~20 people and too esoteric for everyone else (I think they even have a demo server you can connect to with dummy data)

I'd personally love to see an AWS SDK demo with Datadog-like queries. Might be an even more interesting demo if you can get streaming CloudWatch logs to work after drilling down through a resource graph.

didn't realize k8s had a java SDK, that could be compelling

RDF/Wikidata exploration might make for an interesting demo (might just confuse people depending on what resources you're looking at) Interactive SPARQL query editing with live table would be cool. (Probably Jena SDK) Or just exploring ontology/resources interactively. Wikimedia has SSE event streams too which could be interesting to visualize/query (https://stream.wikimedia.org/?doc#/streams)

Watching this demo, I had the feeling that you are showing off a speed run of sorts. That is somewhat interesting, but I don't think there is a huge difference for anyone between standing up something you want in say 30 minutes vs 3 minutes. On the other hand, it was basically impossible for me to follow what you are doing here. I've been using Clojure for years and have even spent a little bit of time looking at electric, but watching this my questions were: • why does that code produce this inspector-style UI? • Is this UI the only thing that is possible to create? • Where did those column select checkboxes come from? (rewatching answered this) • How can I control what the search field does • What is the concept behind the sitemap? Can it allow some form of navigation, or is it laying out a page? • Can this be embedded on a page? • Does the back button work? The choice of example domain in my opinion was okay as long as your audience is Clojure developers, and I think it must be given the amount of code editing happening in the demo.

I would expect a teaser trailer for a google sheets killer to have some very advanced modern aesthetics. As an example, check out remix.run (just the main page). Minimalist, clean, visual, explains really well the value proposition. Requires almost no willpower to concentrate on because the intuitive graphics suck you in. This is what a good teaser website looks like. A teaser trailer, to me, is the same + engaging voiceover. I don't like the music :( Part of that is subjective, the other part is more objective, if I close my eyes, I would guess this was a trailer for a silent film noir detective, not for exciting modern revolutionary tech. Music style and genre should be chosen with a specific role in mind. It also heavily depends on the chosen aesthetic — generic corporate tunes will work well if the aesthetic is a well-done generic-corporate flat one, but it generally won't go well with any punk/grunge aesthetic

amazing! love the jazz piano soundtrack too

Overall I like the idea of a teaser video. Here are my thoughts: The namespace demo is bit abstract. I would like to see a more concrete example (e.g the t-shirt demo). Moreover, it is not clear that the backend is called. I would use something like get-from-db or similar. Function names that make it really obvious that the backend is involved. This is especially important for viewers who are not familiar with Electric. I like using fast playing music, which emphasizes the fast development speed. However, I find the music a bit to stressful, but this is probably just a personal taste. And the explanation text is a bit lost. I did not notice it for the first 90 seconds of the video.