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Dustin Getz14:03:14

@zimablue re. your question about business model in the other channel Commercial OSS is huge, see I.e. Apache Spark -> Databricks We think the best business is likely selling a shrinkwrapped experience to midsize businesses who don't want to spend eng time on UI Hyperfiddle (the library) and Photon are FOSS as far as Clojure programmers are concerned, we haven't chosen a license yet but guidance from the best open source VCs is to use a real FOSS license. As members of the Clojure community ourselves we personally value FOSS and the ecosystem activity it enables. This approach gives us access to growth capital which we think will benefit the ecosystem tremendously, both Hyperfiddle ecosystem but also paving an onboarding path for mainstream programmers to Clojure - which should produce a compounding flywheel effect for Clojure itself

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Dustin Getz14:03:42

WIP - Streaming UI as a Expression includes user interactions

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clojure-spin 1
Dustin Getz15:03:29

Here you can see • the UI stream in from the server on start click • the forms work and emit signal of transactions • select options widget is exploded to diagnostic "xray" view • bugs in our dom renderer which is being reworked • gray fields are reflected from clojure specs

Dustin Getz15:03:42

Same test AST as always:

  {(submissions .)
    {[:person/gender {::hf/options      (genders)
                      ::hf/option-label :db/ident}]
    {[:person/shirt-size {::hf/options      (shirt-sizes person/gender .)
                          ::hf/option-label :db/ident
                          ::hf/render       xray-select}]

(defn submissions [needle] ...)
(defn genders [needle] ...)
(defn shirt-sizes [gender needle] ...)

(s/fdef submissions :args (s/cat :needle string?) :ret (s/coll-of hf/ref?))
(s/fdef genders :ret (s/coll-of hf/ref?))
(s/fdef shirt-sizes :args (s/cat :gender hf/ref? :needle string?) :ret (s/coll-of hf/ref?))

Daniel Jomphe16:03:46

clojure-spin seems like a really apt emoji to signal an impressed reaction to this kind of reactivity ☺️

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What is a "real foss" license, you mean copyleft? Also, what is growth capital?


thanks so much for your answers, sorry to ask awkward questions I am curious partly because I dream of selling software myself

Dustin Getz18:03:07

sorry, growth capital = venture capital real foss license = as opposed to a source-available commercial license


so not necessarily copyleft, do you have an opinion on copyleft vs other for someone in your situation?


are you guys through some seed rounds?

Dustin Getz18:03:52

Whatever FOSS license we choose will be commercial friendly so as many people can use it as possible

Dustin Getz18:03:48

We're angel backed


commercial friendly is like MIT right? so enterprises don't freak out and get squeamish. But then you have the "Amazon problem" where they bundle you into their AWS except now they have bigger sales team and integrations


I'm curious about you saying your approach gives access to growth capital, what is it that you're saying gives access to capital where another choice wouldn't. Do you mean the approach to try and monetize through a SaaS ish bundled offering?

Dustin Getz18:03:57

AWS problem is a fake problem, tech monopolies produce terrible software, AWS legitimizing us would be net positive by far


a slightly interesting company in a similar-ish space you might or might not have seen is "Anvil"

Dustin Getz18:03:55

do you have a link, this is hard to google for

zimablue18:03:52 they're basically using one of the python-to-js transpilers to reinvent winforms in the web and selling it with clojure in the backend as a low code platform for people doing a lot of workflow/forms stuff

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less technologically interesting than what you're doing I think but similarly low-code, batteries included, open core


it's not quite the space I'm interested in but been doing some market research and they turned up

Dustin Getz18:03:02

I meant a goto market strategy something like developer led with upsell to either enterprise/HA server or a managed low-code platform - this lets us keep the core product open but also has great economics


is your market theoretically limited by being only Clojure devs?

Dustin Getz19:03:25

Clojure market size has been a source of anxiety for a long time but user interviews for our latest tech would suggest that familiarity with functional mindset matters a lot more than syntax, and everyone knows React.js now