@mac re: printing datastructures - take a look at https://github.com/noprompt/shodan#inspection

and example output: http://i.stack.imgur.com/ikJXW.png

piotrek: Looks good, but the fancy folding stuff is done by the console, right?

yes

I wasn’t sure if it’s for debugging or for user interface

@micha regarding weak references in js - which javascript version is hoplon aiming at? es6 provides WeakMap and WeakSet. Would that work for storing listeners/watchers in the cells?

It was for an interface, but for now this will work well too, thanks.

re: GCing cells I've already mentioned it here, but now I'm talking having more experience of using that stuff in production https://github.com/ul/carbon/blob/master/src/carbon/rx.cljs — most cases of cells GC needs are covered by triggering cleanup after changes propagation and watch removal. If formula has no sinks and watches, then detach it from its sources and it becomes available for GCing by JS.

We use dynamic reactive expressions w/o much care and had no memory leaks for some time (after the last significant bug in propagation/cleaning subsystem was fixed)

I think that it is possible to write similar extension for javelin

@piotrek: we need a weak ref ideally, weak set and weak map not ideal since you can't traverse them. They're really only useful for caches

Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll ever get them in JS because weak refs reveal information about memory that could be used to exploit JS vm, see jit splay

@ul do you have any examples of things built with carbon?

@ul: interesting. Does that mean anonymous cells for effect can disappear?

Eg (cell= (println foo)) at top level

also @lewix ^^^ carbon might interest you

@micha: could we push a new jar with the innerHTML to empty string fix?

i’m also thinking it might make sense to enhance the page macro so the user can specify whether to :refer :all of the element constructors, or in my case, the hoplon ui constructors

i get bitten by the injection of the html element functions more often than i’d like

can we also revert that last commit before release?

the IParent one

@micha: ^^^^ 🙂

that revert fixed it, wasn’t mentioned in the msg though

Is anyone playing around with front end templating (or template engine) in their hoplon app?

hmmm I guess the html->hl task kinda does this

@dm3 no any public at the moment, but I should make TodoMVC or somewhat like that soon

@alandipert: yes, exactly. but i've found that it is not a problem, because anonymous top-level is always special case, so you can just add-watch or even make nice macro for that

the same reactive expressions system as in carbon is in ampere https://github.com/condense/ampere which is view-agnostic implementation of re-frame architecture, built primarily to be used with Om “classic”

actually, i'm thinking about trading virtual dom back to hoplon again