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@micha: so let's try the other way - why are you against the big atom? I just saw elm using something similar but I don't see much explanation from anyone


only short, not very informative points


@xifi, again - the benefit - it's one piece of state. If you want to save it, serialize it, store it, restore it - no problem. It's a database. If you have a map in an atom - it's a KV store. If you have a datascript database in an atom - it's something more. If your application works well with the database concept - you're good to go.


you seem to come from a position against *the big atom*, could you elaborate why?


@dm3: I'm just asking questions that might seem to attack the idea, so as to get to the core of the idea. I'll be around a bit later, or if not today then tomorrow, so I can ping you 😉


@dm3: mostly I'm just trying to compare Om/reagent to Hoplon though


with Om you get a very constrained access to the "database" (assuming you don't mean om-next)


re :html: use the source, @ul ! 😉


@ul: regarding semantic-ui, indeed we are still using it successfully and quite satisfied with it, though a, we haven't done any serious customizations on it b. we don't really feel the need for serious customizations c, it's adaptability to different screen sizes is quite good d, the out of the box version is a bit big for public websites, which also exaggerates FOUC issue e, we still keep looking up the documentation for the possible class name variations, so im not completely sold on their philosophy you can see a lof of use-cases in our website source:


it was a great choice to bridge the past ~year while we didn't have enough readily available CSS knowledge. we have also learnt a lot from it. for our web app im not so keen to change it, but for our website i would try something leaner instead. i would like to explore the idea a bit, because it makes the markup super minimal and all the styling concerns are concentrated into the CSS, however u might want a lot of conditional CSS anyway, so it might not make much sense for web apps...


@alandipert: @micha we prepared a minimal example of a loop-tpl issue in alpha11


if it seems a valid problem, i would file a github issue


@onetom: thank you for details! i've started my new app with Semantic UI provided by exicon/semantic-ui, and flight goes well right now


big size is not a concern in my case, because despite of small application functionality it deals with a bunch of images, and even such big framework like semantic is not a problem comparing with image loading


but on another side it is good that it has many things in it, because i want to easy add them if they will be needed in future


in this particular app making things nice with less efforts is more valuable than optimization or ability to customize everything