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Thanks for the new Fulcro 3 live tutorials you posted on youtube. Is the code for them posted anywhere?


It’s linked in the video descriptions on many (but not all) of them


tags all in same repo


Icon fixed and windows release added to electron inspect. Windows complains a lot about it being insecure and wants to firewall block the ws, but I have verified that it at least starts…someone else can tell me if it works beyond that 🙂

Arto Kalishian16:10:08

I am proceeding with all the tutorials and documentation for Fulcro right now. But I have a question. I've noticed that Fulcro v3 is not backward compatible with older versions. Is there any long-term-release cycles to guarantee that web apps built on Fulcro will not be obsolete when new versions come out? Is there any upgrade / migration mechanisms? Just curious.

tony.kay17:10:22 This is open source, free software with no warranties of any kind. v3's APIs are largely compatible (I have a lot of code that needed to move from v2). The new namespaces in v3 are to prevent breakage and give users of the library a clear point at which they know there will be some porting overhead. That said, the porting (having done it with large apps) is mostly renaming namespaces, adjusting a handful of function signatures. It is not a “completely new thing” that requires you throw anything away. V1->V2 was a similar kind of porting (a few ns changes) and included intermediate compat APIs (used to be defui instead of defsc). V2->V3 is a similar level of porting effort (a few days at most on a typical project). Your “long-term” options for older versions are the same as with 99% of every other free OSS project: you have the source. If you want to use an old version and find a bug: it’s probably going to fall to you to fix it, or pay someone else to.


If you fall far enough behind, then it is possible that some part of the API might go away (e.g. defui is no longer supported in v3)


Even then, the options for fixing that are pretty simple (e.g. defsc does the same stuff as defui, just with less syntax).

Arto Kalishian17:10:06

Thanks a lot Tony for your video tutorials on YouTube and your feedback here appreciated. As fulcro website stated, choosing tools in the beginning is a very difficult thing to do. The reason I asked this question is because I was trying to weight things out in my mind in terms of maintain-ability. Should I use a framework that is all glued together doing magic, or use a framework that is actually very minimal and therefore I can upgrade its' individual parts separately when I feel the need (like more modularity). I am actually just brainstorming to see what are the obstacles developers fell into to save more time. But either way I think I will end up learning Fulcro and everything else to be sure I am on the right path 😄

Arto Kalishian18:10:51

I am not sure why people use any of their chosen frameworks, but the reason I will use a framework is mainly to develop ERP like systems for companies.


You’re welcome. Let me point out a few things: 1. Modularity is often counter to seamless operation. More modular = more glue code you write. Things that are designed together (within a domain) tend to work more seamlessly. 2. Fulcro does almost no magic. defsc does some convenience stuff for you in three common places. Other macros are there to actually make the code more understandable to IDEs and therefore less frustrating as it gets large. Fulcro helps with data in/out, and it turns out the normalized db and co-located query/ident end up helping in many many (often unexpected) ways. Just because you’re unfamiliar with it doesn’t mean it’s doing a lot of magic.


I’m glad you’re working through the materials. I think you’ll be surprised at how simple the model is once you get past the foreign feel of it.

Arto Kalishian18:10:34

Thanks Tony. Well you being here is a comfort on its' own. I hope Fulcro becomes for Clojure what Rails is for Ruby (but not in the sense of magic in the sense of adoption). I know that the documentation is pretty much extensive but is there any plans for ebook releases/guides on the way?


what you see is what I’ve got time for: book + YouTube videos. I may make some more videos…but the book is already an ebook.