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#community-development
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2021-01-06
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pez16:01:12

Do I need to do anything to get a new channel to be archive at the clojurians-log?

jjttjj16:01:57

"/invite @logbot " i believe

jjttjj16:01:04

Is this documented anywhere? I had to find it in a clojureverse thread

andy.fingerhut16:01:29

Good question. I suspect someone has documented the commands to invite bots for logging via clojurians-log, and for Clojurians ZulipChat (two different bots), but it would be nice to have a page documenting those things, and links to the logs, and even maybe some brief instructions on how to search those logs.

andy.fingerhut16:01:55

I can create my own personal Github file documenting those things and link to them, but maybe there is a better "home" for that info.

pez16:01:05

Your Google-fu is stronger than mine, @jjttjj. Thanks!

👍 1
jjttjj16:01:01

yeah maybe above the fold on the readme of the clojurians-log app on github would be nice

jjttjj16:01:33

But yeah also having both bots' incantations on the same page would be nice

andy.fingerhut17:01:41

Does anyone know if the bot logbot (for clojurians-log) or zulip-mirror-bot should show up in the list of members of a Slack channel after they have been invited? I've searched the list of members of a few Slack channels for those names, and not found them, so perhaps there is something special about them that they do not show up in those member lists?

andy.fingerhut17:01:56

And I guess /invite <name> messages are always only visible to the sender, and shouldn't clutter up the view of other (human) channel members?

andy.fingerhut17:01:24

Answering my previous question: if the bot was not already invited, everyone sees a message that the bot was added to the channel. If the bot was already on the channel, no one sees a message except the person who attempted the invite, who sees a message that the bot is already a member of the channel. Nice going, Slack, for not cluttering up everyone's messages with repeated attempts to invite the same bot.

andy.fingerhut18:01:04

Feel free to comment, correct, or ask questions about this article, which if polished up maybe slightly more, I could try to find a better "home" for: https://github.com/jafingerhut/jafingerhut.github.com/blob/master/clojure/clojurians-slack-archive-notes.md

seancorfield18:01:56

@andy.fingerhut Typing @log in this channel offers @logbot as a completion and the same goes for typing @zul offering @zulip-mirror-bot -- @pez if you invite @logbot to a channel, can you also invite @zulip-mirror-bot please?

andy.fingerhut18:01:29

Sean, are you asking whether doing an invite for @logbot in a Slack channel can automatically also invite @zulip-mirror-bot ? If that is possible, cool. I wasn't expecting that it would be.

seancorfield19:01:28

No, I'm asking people who invite logbot in to also invite zulip-mirror-bot in so messages are available in both places.

seancorfield19:01:13

I just updated the README at https://github.com/clojurians/community-development (which is linked in the channel topic and also in the description here) so that it documents the logging bots.

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andy.fingerhut19:01:55

Sean, if you think any of that article would be useful to add to the community-development Github repo you just linked to, let me know, and/or feel free to copy any of it you want. That repo seems like a good home for that content.

seancorfield19:01:24

Feel free to send a PR!

seancorfield19:01:44

@andy.fingerhut I don't know where you got the $1,200 figure from? According to the Slack Admin page, upgrading to their minimum paid plan would cost: "$8 USD x 952 members x 1 month = $7,616 USD" and they're currently offering a 50% discount for three months.

seancorfield19:01:49

Screen cap of Slack upgrade page:

andy.fingerhut21:01:35

I've updated my article with that snapshot of price estimate. Thanks. $1,200 was from some incorrect memory of a discussion 1 or 2 months ago, but even though I remember the number mentioned there incorrectly, it was also calculated incorrectly then, too. Two wrongs did not make a right this time 🙂

pez20:01:28

Thing is I invited the zulip bot first, because it was easy to remember/find. 😃

1
andy.fingerhut21:01:56

Does anyone recall when http://clojurians.slack.com was created, out of curiosity?

andy.fingerhut21:01:28

and/or when you recall it becoming more popular than #clojure on IRC freenode?

andy.fingerhut21:01:57

I see clojurians-log #clojure channel log goes back to mid 2015

seancorfield21:01:53

#admin-announcements was Created on March 1, 2015 which was the original "general" channel that Slack creates.

seancorfield21:01:33

I don't know how many folks are on freenode IRC but Slack hit several hundred members very quickly...

alexmiller21:01:45

we've been asking the question about forums on the state of clojure for several years and that's possibly useful to compare and track

andy.fingerhut21:01:51

Thanks, you two. I will quickly check several past state of Clojure survey results to see what the trends were.

borkdude22:01:56

I remember coming here on Slack in October 2014, does that sound right?

seancorfield22:01:17

Nope. It wasn't created until March 2015. See my comment above.

borkdude22:01:36

That is the channel you are referring to

seancorfield22:01:59

#clojure and #admin-announcements were created March 1, 2015.

borkdude22:01:32

Weird, then my memories are mixed up :)

seancorfield22:01:01

Gavin-John Noonan set it all up (on March 1st, 2015) and it ballooned pretty quickly 🙂

borkdude22:01:18

I could be mixing this up with hanging out in the reagent (or clojurescript) channel somewhere, a lot, around that time. Could have been IRC then.

seancorfield22:01:38

You joined Slack very early @borkdude:

gjnoonan,"Primary Owner",0,0,0,U03RZGPFT,"Gavin-John Noonan",gjnoonan,
arathunku,Member,0,0,0,U04V0EV9N,arathunku,arathunku,
jasebell,Member,0,0,0,U04V0TT98,jasebell,,
davy,,Member,0,0,0,U04V0UNM2,"Davy Duperron",davy,
kjw,Member,0,0,0,U04V12X4C,kjw,,
borkdude,Member,1,0,0,U04V15CAJ,"Michiel Borkent",borkdude,
I think that's in date-joined order.

borkdude22:01:59

what does the 1 vs 0 mean after Member? ;)

seancorfield22:01:18

Active vs inactive I think.

seancorfield22:01:39

I omitted the email addresses. I figured everything else was public data.

borkdude22:01:03

so I'm the oldest active user here?

metal 3
seancorfield22:01:49

Yup! Congratulations!

seancorfield22:01:03

But members go inactive and then become active again.

borkdude22:01:18

I'll celebrate this moment then

andy.fingerhut22:01:10

I think you should have a number over 1 in that column 🙂

andy.fingerhut22:01:44

Somewhere around 11

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seancorfield22:01:26

There are only a handful of still-active users amongst those early joiners: Nate Smith, Delaguardo, Ray McDermott, Erik (slipset), Gert (eval2020), and me (51st person to join).

andy.fingerhut22:01:04

Looking back at the state of Clojure survey results, the first year that ecosystem involvement question was asked was 2016, probably late in the year since the article I see publishing the results are dated Jan 2017. By that time, Clojurians Slack was already the highest fraction of responders (responders were asked to list all they were involved in, not only one) at almost 60%, and it has always been near that percentage since then. The Google groups have taken the biggest dive since then (about 50% in 2016 down to 17% in the last survey), and IRC went from 16% down to about 4%)

andy.fingerhut22:01:20

I can publish an Excel sheet soon, in case anyone wants to see all of the others.

seancorfield23:01:20

Could you link to the official community repo for this Slack? https://github.com/clojurians/community-development Just for completeness.

andy.fingerhut02:01:59

(accidentally replied to myself instead of you, earlier) If you don't mind waiting a day or two for Gert Goet to review the article and suggest any changes he thinks of, I don't mind submitting a PR to that repo to add this article to it.

andy.fingerhut02:01:13

Skimming over what is there now, I think I had heard, but forgotten because it has been quite some time, the term "Slackpocalypse". I guess Slack didn't do many repeats of the kicking large OSS communities off their free service.

seancorfield02:01:00

Yeah, we kept anticipating being kicked off as we approached 8k, then 9k, then 10k... and nothing happened... and now we're at 20k... but perhaps it's all about the number of active uses in which case we're still only at 1k and I suspect Slack doesn't care about that 🙂

seancorfield02:01:24

But I would certainly be completely happy if everyone decamped from here and landed at Zulip...

eval202016:01:32

I submitted a PR to your repos @andy.fingerhut . Happy to discuss it further via DM/PR if needed.

andy.fingerhut16:01:54

Thanks. Will take a look in a few mins

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andy.fingerhut16:01:08

Hmm, I do not see any PRs on this repo, if that is the one you mean: https://github.com/jafingerhut/jafingerhut.github.com

eval202016:01:06

hah, I opened a pr in the fork facepalm

andy.fingerhut16:01:14

I see it now. Thanks for adding the extra how-to on searching Zulip. I will try out the instructions to ensure they work for me, too. Will let you know if I have any questions.

eval202016:01:26

cool thanks!

andy.fingerhut17:01:21

@U04V70XH6 Gert made some nice additions on searching Zulip messages, and I massaged it a little bit more wording-wise on his text and mine, and created a PR to add it to https://github.com/clojurians/community-development

seancorfield17:01:20

Thank you, @andy.fingerhut! Taking a look now...

seancorfield17:01:53

Merged. Updated the readme to link to it prominently!

andy.fingerhut17:01:24

Cool. Sent a link to #news-and-articles so hopefully a few more people become aware of where to find this.

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eval202018:01:10

Thanks Sean, Andy!

seancorfield23:01:11

(it has a bunch of docs that reflect some of the earlier discussions that were had about this whole topic, as well as the README and the Code of Conduct)