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#clojure-uk
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2021-02-09
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dharrigan07:02:05

I've succumed and put up a blog,

🔖 3
clojure-spin 9
alexlynham08:02:28

still astonished bitcoin hasn't tanked yet

alexlynham08:02:36

papa elon has everybody in a frenzy

dharrigan08:02:52

I had +13% on my btc yesterday

thomas08:02:02

it will tank.... question is just when.

alexlynham08:02:23

i cashed out enough crypto to take a year off my mortgage last week

alexlynham08:02:43

in the last four-five days the rest of my holdings have gone up nearly a third

alexlynham08:02:51

gonna be a big crash lol

dharrigan08:02:56

I have £50 of btc 🙂

dharrigan08:02:06

Don't think I'll be paying off my mortgage any day soon...

😂 3
dharrigan08:02:51

A currency I do like and have a tiny amount of is monero

alexlynham09:02:12

i had some monero, cashed it out last week

alexlynham09:02:01

been gradually shuffling up into modern coins that are proof-of-stake/support staking/will support IBC

Conor09:02:14

The psychology of crytocurrency is interesting, in that it seems like a big shared hallucination that something has value

alexlynham09:02:41

cough fiat currency cough houses cough

alexlynham09:02:15

ok houses a bad example cos they have a practical minimum value, fiat a bad example cos you could use it as paper if it was valueless

Conor09:02:20

Sure, but pounds allow me to avoid being put into prison for tax evasion, hence they have a real value

alexlynham09:02:50

sure but take the nation state out of it and it's just a collective hallucination

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alexlynham09:02:37

i don't think crypto is any madder than the sort of financial derivatives the modern financial system is moving around on a daily basis

Conor09:02:04

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, eh

alexlynham09:02:04

(even if it is, granted, just as illusory)

mccraigmccraig09:02:00

with the average prices of a house in the uk currently running at an 8.2 multiple of the average salary... there's some serious collective hallucinatory action going on there

cddr13:02:54

It's been like that for years though hasn't it? Been waiting for a correction since I moved back from the US in 2016. Still waiting....

mccraigmccraig16:02:20

i don't imagine it will change anytime soon either, but it looks very expensive compared to the 3x multiple banks used to regard as a prudent lending limit, and fewer and fewer people can afford to buy a house

alexlynham09:02:34

even with supply being so low, houses are overvalued imo

alexlynham09:02:07

but it's like... the market is broken, everybody suspects it is... yet it still hasn't adjusted? super weird

alexlynham09:02:19

or maybe that is the market clearing price

mccraigmccraig09:02:49

it's not a new thing: “the markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”

😂 3
danm09:02:13

Morning!

mccraigmccraig09:02:01

any vimmers in here ? i want to give vim+clojure a go and would like to get an idea of the landscape / state-of-the-art

danm09:02:30

Not me, but the people I do know who do it use fireplace

Aleksander09:02:03

A few in the channel: I would say either conjure or vim-iced seem most interesting options these days

mccraigmccraig09:02:06

i've heard fireplace, vim-iced and conjure all mentioned

mccraigmccraig09:02:53

but my vim-fluency is basic at best, so i don't have a good way of evaluating relative merits

dharrigan09:02:04

I put together some information on my shiney new blog

dharrigan09:02:23

I use neovim, conjure, clojure-lsp and coc (terrible name)

mccraigmccraig09:02:07

where is your shineynublog @dharrigan?

djm09:02:19

fireplace works fine for me, though the newer options probably have some advantages

Olical09:02:38

I. LOVE. THIS. DOMAIN.

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Olical09:02:43

Disclaimer: I wrote Conjure but... fireplace: Sturdy, been around forever and a very traditional vim plugin. Written by the lord of vim plugins, so you can expect high quality. I think it maaay lack some async-ness though? So it's a little more to the point, maybe that's fine for you! It's just got less bells and whistles. iced: Everything you could ever need, async, still vim script. Hooks into loaaads of plugins and tools (things I don't particularly use since they're more IDE like but some will love that). I guess the most IDE like plugin? A huge inspiration for me since it covers so much ground so cohesively. conjure: Written in Fennel (a lisp that looks like Clojure) compiled to Lua and executed as Lua. Supports Racket, Janet, Fennel and Clojure with Lisp Flavoured Erlang and other Schemes on the radar. Less Clojure specific features than iced but a completely different UX based around an editable log buffer compared to the other two. So it's just a different angle and a bit more general with a very non-traditional development style (a vim plugin written in a lips for lisps). Also ties into Aniseed which allows you to write your neovim config in this lisp seamlessly, so it's more of a lifestyle than a plugin choice 😛 I don't think you can go wrong with any of them really, they just focus on different things. If I was only choosing between fireplace and iced I'd probably go iced though!

mccraigmccraig09:02:59

thanks @olical @dharrigan - i guess i'll try both iced and conjure and see how i go - i know from emacs-land that i'm quite particular (big helm fan), so i'll see what sticks

mccraigmccraig09:02:07

maybe. i'm sufficiently annoyed by spac/emacs instability that i'm exploring alternatives

rickmoynihan17:02:55

Incidentally I’ve seen some emacs instability recently too, and found that disabling the fancy modeline stuff I had (doom-modeline) has significantly improved the stability. I heard some folk saying some other modeline modes like telephone-line caused similar problems for them. So there’s a small chance that might be your problem!?

rickmoynihan17:02:05

IIRC spacemacs uses one too

mccraigmccraig21:02:46

interesting - yes, spacemacs has quite a complex modeline, most of which i don't care about at all

mccraigmccraig21:02:34

having tried and failed with vscode i think i'm going to try doom emacs and a couple of the vim alternatives... and i've got a new variant of the underlying emacs (i was on railwaycat, now trying brew/emacs+) to test out too

rickmoynihan08:02:05

I use stock emacs with a custom config evolved over 15+ years; but had pulled in doom-modeline which doom emacs uses. So if you try doom and still get the issue it might be worth trying with the modeline disabled. Good luck.

mccraigmccraig09:02:58

i tried vscode for a couple of weeks, and it was ok, but i found the UI crippling in the end - so many different ways of doing things which can all be done with helm

seancorfield17:02:59

I went from Emacs to Atom several years ago (after seeing Jason Gilman demo ProtoREPL at a conference) and then switched from ProtoREPL to Chlorine when that appeared, and finally switched to VS Code once Mauricio had ported Chlorine to it (as Clover). With us being an Atlassian shop at work, I like having the JIRA/BitBucket integration in VS Code; I like that it auto-syncs the complete config and extensions between my desktop and my laptop, and that it supports WSL2 on Windows so seamlessly; I like the "workspace" features that let me easily switch between my "work" setup and my OSS setup -- and it remembers what I had open for each! With Clover (and Chlorine) I can easily customize stuff and add new commands in "ClojureScript" (via sci), and only needing a bare Socket REPL on any process is very convenient. And now I can also have Calva installed (with its nREPL stuff hidden!) which has nice formatting tools and LSP-based static analysis via clj-kondo. I sort of get what you means about such a wide variety of ways to do stuff but I like that it's flexible and I can settle into my particular workflow. I got tired of my Emacs setup just breaking on upgrades and I seemed to be constantly tinkering with it -- despite all the years I spent using it, I never really enjoyed using Emacs: it always seemed to be able to jolt me out of flow because of some awkward UX.

mccraigmccraig22:02:38

find a file - helm, text search - helm, change buffer - helm, find a command - helm... i really like helm, it's a brilliant editor UI. vscode just seemed scrappy, and i couldn't get the repl test interface working nearly as well as CIDER. the foundations were good though - scrolling was smooth, and it never crashed, and that mini-preview think on the right of each pane is cool

Aleksander22:02:05

I love my vim, but these days to anyone starting out I recommend VS Code. You can have Development Environment based on VIM, but it won’t be Integrated - you end up spending way too much time setting up and modifying configs, I know of people that happily switched from Emacs to VS Code - Bodil specifically.

Aleksander22:02:38

But if you are keen to try out vim there are few Helm like libraries: fzf.vim, clap and Im sure few others

seancorfield22:02:09

For whatever reason, I just couldn't get used to helm... but I guess for all the many years I used Emacs on and off (since the 17.x versions!) I never really enjoyed it like some people do...

mccraigmccraig09:02:56

and i've never yet dabbled in the vi heresy, but it's stayed around for a very long time, so i suspect there may be something in it, so...

mccraigmccraig11:02:30

find of the day... maybe i'm late to the party, but you can prefix any binding with _ and clj-kondo won't warn about it being unused... so (let [{blah :blah :as _nice-map-name} thing] blah)

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borkdude11:02:37

{:linters {:unused-binding {:exclude-destructured-as true}}}

👍 3
dharrigan11:02:23

oi did that 🙂

😎 6
dharrigan11:02:27

A small contribution

seancorfield17:02:59

I went from Emacs to Atom several years ago (after seeing Jason Gilman demo ProtoREPL at a conference) and then switched from ProtoREPL to Chlorine when that appeared, and finally switched to VS Code once Mauricio had ported Chlorine to it (as Clover). With us being an Atlassian shop at work, I like having the JIRA/BitBucket integration in VS Code; I like that it auto-syncs the complete config and extensions between my desktop and my laptop, and that it supports WSL2 on Windows so seamlessly; I like the "workspace" features that let me easily switch between my "work" setup and my OSS setup -- and it remembers what I had open for each! With Clover (and Chlorine) I can easily customize stuff and add new commands in "ClojureScript" (via sci), and only needing a bare Socket REPL on any process is very convenient. And now I can also have Calva installed (with its nREPL stuff hidden!) which has nice formatting tools and LSP-based static analysis via clj-kondo. I sort of get what you means about such a wide variety of ways to do stuff but I like that it's flexible and I can settle into my particular workflow. I got tired of my Emacs setup just breaking on upgrades and I seemed to be constantly tinkering with it -- despite all the years I spent using it, I never really enjoyed using Emacs: it always seemed to be able to jolt me out of flow because of some awkward UX.

Aleksander22:02:32

Just came across this thread. The libraries to interact with NHS/healthcare data mentioned are in Clojure: https://twitter.com/mwardle/status/1359160452157235201

Mark Wardle08:02:00

Thanks. Clojure makes a lot of this very easy to do - I have previous code bases in Java and golang and it has been far quicker and yet more robust and with fewer lines of code in clojure. Plus some amazing compose letters libraries. Found it hard initially to get over old learnt behaviour of fearing to commit to the use of a library because in the past using dependencies was a commitment difficult to undo, but I feel I’m building with Lego bricks now not glue.

rickmoynihan09:02:56

Great to see someone else tackling this sort of problem with clojure. As a colleague of mine just said; let reference data be the thin end of the wedge! 🙂 We’re currently involved in a relatively large project that is doing this sort of thing with the ONS, and hoping to expand across the GSS (Government Statistical Service). Also primarily built around graph data (RDF) with CSVW at the edges, and in Clojure too 🙂

djm09:02:59

I wish my job involved doing fun things with data in Clojure!

Mark Wardle09:02:59

Thanks Rick. I’ve wanted to automate downloads of data from the ONS geography service - namely the NHSPD - but while there is an API AFAIK run by outsourcing - ESRI - there doesn’t seem to be a way of machine reading the latest item identifier for a particular distribution. In the NHS, there are whole departments set up manually updating this kind of stuff with people manually mapping to their parochial lists and codes. Amazingly frustrating and the whole thing should be automated away!