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2020-05-05

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#clojure-uk
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2020-05-05
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dharrigan05:05:19

Good Morning!

Jakob Durstberger06:05:39

Good morning 🙂

jasonbell08:05:35

Good morning

Ben Hammond09:05:43

> wont work whilst both apps running in the background is my big takeaway from thatt

Ben Hammond09:05:12

leaving aside the > They're not to be trusted angle; as my wife points out > effective contact tracing is by by definition intrusive

rickmoynihan08:05:02

I think they’ll end up pushing the apple/google solution. Supposedly they’re also trialing that as an alternative

mccraigmccraig09:05:56

yep - unless you are using the blessed (by apple) approach, your app ain't running in the background for any significant length of time (you get a few seconds after backgrounding to clean up), so it's doomed, as any iOS dev could have told them :man-facepalming::man-facepalming::man-facepalming:

thomas09:05:07

Morning all. I am not quite sure how to say this but I wanted to share this with you guys as this is a group I feel at home and welcome, and thank you all for that..... It is with regret that I have to announce that my Clojure job has come to a premature end due to various reasons. I have no clue what to do next, whether to continue with Clojure or programming/computers at all. I am planning on using the next few months on trying to figure out what to do next. If anyone has any questions/suggestions please DM me. Thank you.

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dominicm09:05:53

I'm sorry to hear that :(

dominicm09:05:00

I know you were psyched to get that job

dharrigan09:05:46

Oh dear. That's not great news at all.

agile_geek09:05:48

I am envious of all of you with a job at the moment. I haven't had any work since Dec so you think you're fed up of staying at home due to the virus, I've also got little to do and no money!

Ben Hammond09:05:39

do you get Universal Credit?

dominicm10:05:58

@agile_geek how are you keeping yourself busy?

agile_geek10:05:59

@ben.hammond Nope. I'm still paying myself from my company account for now so could be worse but those funds won't last for ever. No one was hiring contractors/consultants before virus due to IR35 and no one is hiring now due to uncertainty and many companies going out of biz.

Ben Hammond10:05:27

so you might be able to get furlough

Ben Hammond10:05:47

depending on your salary/dividend balance

agile_geek10:05:40

As you might expect I pay myself mostly in dividends but I've applied for furlough (along with my ex-wife who is my admin assistant.

folcon13:05:46

There aren’t many good options here unfortunately, I’m in the same boat as you >_<…

agile_geek10:05:28

@dominicm so far... brushed up on my JS... learning a lot more k8s.... read a number of tech books including Sam Newman's excellent book on Monoliths to Microservices... currently re learning my systems theory.

dharrigan10:05:47

I read something different on register about IR35 being delayed

Ben Hammond10:05:27

yeah but its delayed for the same reason that nobody's hiring

Ben Hammond10:05:41

the deep blue sea rather than the devil

Ben Hammond10:05:18

and then we've got brexit to look forward to

dominicm10:05:50

Sounds like a fun time :)

agile_geek10:05:08

Actually I am really hooked on Systems Theory again. I'd forgotten a lot of it since graduating (32 years will do that). Also the field has moved on a lot. I like holistic approaches and the insights systems theory gives are really useful.

agile_geek10:05:28

@dharrigan Yes but it made no difference to me as I think most of the ppl who've benefited were long term contractors in the same company acting in same way as perm staff (and should be affected by IR35). My last role was to fill a temporary hole in a teams skillset while they built the team back up and I simplified the architecture which is 1. much more to my liking 2. not a disguised employee. However, IR35 is a crude net that has scared all employers into not using consultants at all. The delay has probably benefited those already in contract but the current uncertainty around biz in Covid scare would slow/stop consultancy regardless so IR35 stopped me getting roles before virus and virus is now stopping consultancy anyway.

dharrigan10:05:16

Yeah, all you say is very true. I know in our company that there is a hesitancy to hire contractors atm due to uncertainty over IR35 and brexit.

Ben Hammond10:05:32

and you don't know where they've been

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thomas10:05:10

but hiring contractors should be the no brainer at the moment... hiring permanent staff should be the one which is uncertain at the moment.

thomas10:05:56

I have job X for which I need a specialist. So I higher person Y to do this for Z amount of time to do it for me... and once done they are gone again.

agile_geek11:05:02

I think the industry needs to recalibrate what we use consultants for. I don't want to be working on the same work as a permanent employee for years. If I did I'd still be a permie! It's not about the money (I pay myself what I used to get as a permie - which is good cos otherwise I couldn't be out of work for 6 months!). I like using my decades of experience to solve problems, get ppl in a better place to move on without me and then I like to move on to the next challenge. If IR35 actually resulted in real outcome based service consultancy contracts I'd be ecstatic! The problem is companies don't know how to engage 'consultants' on this kind of contract. They either hire for the same position as a permanent employee or they hire a ridiculously expensive global consultancy to write a report for millions (cos that's safer than hiring a one or two person consultancy that can actually get stuff done!). They just don't know how to write a contract that shares risk (any outcome based contracts I've seen tend to be fixed price/fixed detailed requirements where the risk is all on the supplier). This lack of shared risk contractual terms is the reason agile work with IT suppliers NEVER works. Either all the risk is on the client (time and materials contract) or on supplier (fixed cost/requirements).

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alexlynham16:05:06

this this this

rhinocratic11:05:31

I resigned from my post at the end of January (mainly for health reasons), so my notice period finished just a few days before the lockdown started. I can't remember if it seemed like a good idea at the time, but it certainly doesn't now! Oddly, I feel more enthusiastic about tech than I have done for years (largely owing to the freedom to study), and now that the antidepressants have run out I no longer feel the need for them. However, with regret I think I've got to give up on Clojure as a realistic option for paid work - it was already rare before the outbreak. I still think it's the best language I've used by a country mile.

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dominicm12:05:21

I've been trying to give myself some more freedom in my hobby time. I want to get into embedded development or something. I enjoy low level programming.

dominicm12:05:54

Even if I achieve nothing, I enjoy time spent trying to get zig to compile and do a minor dumb thing.

rhinocratic12:05:50

I hadn't encountered Zig before - looks interesting! I've been ploughing ahead with Rust, and experience a similar sense of elation when the borrow checker allows me to do something useful.

dominicm12:05:23

I've been avoiding Rust's borrow checker 😂 Decided I had better things to do :). Zig has a significantly better C interop story, it's completely seamless.

dominicm12:05:34

I think C++ might get similar treatment, but not sure.

dominicm12:05:45

It was nice not having to copy around any structs to get zig to build.

Ben Hammond12:05:47

there's gratification to be found in (almost) all languages

Adrian Smith14:05:08

Tomorrow we're looking at the improved webpack support in CLJS: https://www.meetup.com/Bristol-Clojurians/events/zdfnqrybchbjb/ and possibly maybe doing our first recorded meetup for those that can't attend

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