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Pathological group identity is very present in some people today.


any examples of such pathological group identities?


I mean is it eg supposed to mean eg "white people trying to pass as neutral and not liking being called white" or "white people entering goverment buildings with guns in large numbers and getting away with it"?


@UA2R84M28 That is quite racist. Didn't you just complain earlier about a post that made you feel uncomfortable?


what is racist?


caling out structural racism of the society is racist? ๐Ÿ˜‚


these were just examples of potentially patological groups - I was just asking John which ones he meant is his post

Wes Hall10:02:51

It's present in most people. Possibly all. It's pretty innate. The current problem is the fight over which "group identities" are OK to focus on. You literally run a technical event that is exclusive on the basis of group identity, something I personally struggle with despite the very good intentions behind it.


There is one person in here that typifies the behaviour conveyed on the lecture and the reason I will be leaving this channel again this week.


@U9HA101PY agree that all people have some their group identities: eg British, Londoner, member of their family, migrant, black, white, cis, trans, etc, etc. Some of those groups have more power, some less. And again I agree the fight is over which groups to focus on. By default it's the group with most power - usually white cishet men. Or whether environments/events/organisers should put explicit effort into being acessible by non-dominant groups. At the moment a lot of non-dominant groups given up hope that they'll be trully welcome in the mainstream groups. I'm pretty sure a lot of members of those groups would be happy not to feel the need to organise separate events based on the identity - but we're far off from that

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Dude... just stop. You've gotten everything you wanted. The video is down, people are leaving the channel. Everything is like you want it to be.


I've talked with people that left. They've thanked me for speaking up ๐Ÿ™‚


It's not Alex that is the cause of people wanting to leave


Ok, if I'm being toxic I am sorry. That was the last thing I wanted to be. I do believe the video should not have stayed on the channel if it was making somebody uncomfortable. But I also didn't like bringing in race etc. into the conversation. But maybe I am wrong.

Wes Hall17:02:30

@glfinn83 He's talking about me.

Wes Hall17:02:57

@UA2R84M28 It's not a big hang up for me honestly. A part of the problem is that I was once a working class lad, trying fairly hard to break into the industry with few people prepared to give me the time of day. My personal view is that it is the "working class" that are the underprivileged ones, and I personally find it hard to support yet another group that wouldn't have given me the time of day back when I was a kid on the basis of the wrong gender identity. I also can't help but feel that a bunch of men as "mentors" and a bunch of women as "students" is a poor optic, but it's just my opinion. Might as well express it before the admins kick me out for being disruptive or whatever.

Wes Hall17:02:28

I don't mind (of course) people creating groups for exclusive identities, I just don't like being told by those people that everybody else but them (implied) is hung up on it.


Well, at least my encounters with you @U9HA101PY have been nice and informative. Thumbs up for you.


Good Morning!


Good morning UK!


Morning guys!


Morning ๐ŸŒž






what !?!? Bruce left?

Ben Hammond10:02:19

with a live-long-and-prosper

Ben Hammond10:02:43

not sure what to make of thatt




I have a feeling he'll be back at some point


Just having a break


I don't blame Bruce for leaving clojure-uk. There is quite a toxic discussion from one person in this channel. I am leaving at the end of this week or once we have enough coaches for ClojureBridge

๐Ÿ˜ฃ 4

If there is a member who's making people leave en masse surely the more reasonable approach is to remove that member? Is there a discussion to be had here?


I think we all agree that clojure-uk should be as welcoming and warm as possible


I have shared my concerns with one of the administrators of this slack community.


Morning ๐Ÿ™‚


Has anyone here gone through some of Eric's PurelyFunctional courses? The subscription price is quite steep, more than Coursera even, so I'm wondering if it's worth it


I think they do free weeks every so often as well


I can't say if it's going to be worth it for you. But I can say the quality is very good and useful at my level of learning

Wes Hall13:02:57

@glfinn83 I recently subscribed on the basis of a recommendation here. Particularly for the repl-driven-development course. Quite a lot of it was how I tend to work anyway, but I definitely did pick up a trick or two. The content is quite well made. I am not sure that I am going to continue the subscription as I think most of the content is really aimed at people learning clojure, but I suppose it depends where you are on your journey there.


Thanks. I'm only a few months in, so if even veterans are able to pic up a thing or two then I'm definitely sure it will it will be beneficial

Wes Hall13:02:41

For certain definitions of "veteran" ๐Ÿ˜‰, but yeah I would say it's definitely worth a punt on a month subscription to see if you feel you get anything out of it. There is a fair bit of content there. You'll definitely get your monies worth in that first month, enough to see if it works for you and if it's worth continuing.

๐Ÿ‘ 4

I thought that there was some sort 20%-ish or so off for the people based in .uk? As for the subscription, Iโ€™ve got it so that I support Eric, but Iโ€™ve never really sat and watched any of the videos all the way through. Maybe itโ€™s just the paceโ€ฆ

๐Ÿ‘ 4
Wes Hall17:02:44

GB_Rocks is the code. Worked for me.


Hey folks... the Admin team has taken a pretty hands-off approach to this channel in the past, on the grounds that what's generally "acceptable" to Brits in the context of a work environment is substantially more lenient than what Americans consider work-appropriate. In theory, #brexit was created as an outlet for political discussions so this channel could remain "peaceful" but even the #brexit channel got too toxic for some people -- who wanted to discuss Brexit as an important issue that affects them (and that is the reason the Admin team didn't just shut that down). In general, politics, religion, and philosophy don't belong in a professional, technical community -- those topics are a lightning rod to heated exchanges and can make some people feel very unwelcome and excluded. Given the way a few threads here have gone off the rails lately, and the number of complaints that the Admin team are starting to see from members (and former members) of this channel, we feel like we have no choice but to take a more active role here going forward...

๐Ÿ™ 12

...translating that to the bottom line: if we hear specific complaints about individuals, those individuals will be removed from this community.


I'm not saying "no off-topic stuff" just: be respectful of your peers and remember that this is a large, professional, technical community. If you want to discuss controversial topics, do it elsewhere.


Evening all. I've chatted to a few people in private, but I just wanted to apologise to the channel in general as well. When I shared that lecture video last night, I had no idea who the speaker was and of his previous background. It was never my intention to offend anyone or to incite the polarisation that occurred afterwards. I feel really bad about what's happened over the past 24 hours. Again I am really really really sorry for making that mistake.


Don't feel bad man. If anything you helped shape the policy of the channel :) I just hope wont be one-sided.


Agree you have nothing to feel bad about


At least one has to admit the irony of this raising the topic of political correctness.


@yogidevbear you have nothing to feel bad about at all. My issue is not with you.


Good night all.

๐ŸŒ™ 8

cor, well that was some surprising history to come back to after a few afk days!