Morning!

Morning

Morn

Morning

morning

Morning

Very quiet in the office now

only a few of us in

Tis the season!

Morning

Good Morning Everyone!

Sorry I've not been around much - not that you ought to have noticed or anything - just been hella hella busy... How's everyone doing? Everyone seen TROS?

TROS @maleghast?

Something about Star Trek I think @mccraigmccraig 😉

The Reincarnation Of Spock ?

That’s the one

@mccraigmccraig Now let us sit back, clink our Christmas drink glasses and watch the flames leap higher…… LOL

Morning.

TROS - The Rise of Skywalker

and yeah, very funny you two... 😉 (@mccraigmccraig and @jasonbell)

i'll probably see it in hastings over christmas with my kids and cousins

The teen did the triple bill on Wednesday/Thursday. Dad taxi at 2:30am…..

triple bill? surely real fans should be doing the full 9-bill?

On a school night @mccraigmccraig on a school night 🙂

TRoS felt very RotJ to me

is that a good thing @otfrom? i don't have a functioning plot memory so i can't really tell

👋 hey folks how is everyone doing today

got an ear infection 🤕

We’re still hiring btw: https://www.swirrl.com/hiring/

Nice position. I’d love to learn more about 3 things you have on the website: 1. How to decide where to apply property-based testing approaches 2. How to make agile development really work in public sector projects 3. What do you do in R?

If anyone fancies dropping in to say hi https://twitter.com/juxtpro/status/1208007530200387584?s=19

@jiriknesl If you want to discuss 1 and 2, I’ll probably need to ask you to apply. 🙂 In response to 3. There are a few things: 1. We often get asked to do bespoke work on top of our platform and data/management/harmonisation/consultancy work. That work is usually a client wanting to then leverage or show some benefit of having spent the time working on the data. They might want a bespoke app to explore the data in a particular way; or some kind of data viz for a specific set of data. Sometimes they just want us to do something cheap and throw-away that demonstrates some concept internally to stakeholders. Othertimes if I’m being cynical they just want something flashy. For some of those jobs we will use R (and other things) some of the time. Normally for stuff we don’t plan to maintain longer term. 2. When scoping client work, we often need to do some preliminary analysis of the data, or maybe a quick and dirty one off transformation of some data. 3. Our customers like to use R, pandas, etc… to analyse the data we manage in the platform for them. So R users, d3 users etc are a demographic of users we often seek to serve.

Thank you!

ooo nice datalog query format... i did enjoy working with datalog against hadoop (with cascalog) a while back

My efforts in getting clojure in here seem to be paying off. I've done another presentation to our boss and he now wants me to look for a developer (internally to begin with) who is happy to do 50% kotlin and 50% clojure

(when (>= 50 0) "w00t!")

Who would do 50% kotlin? Tough job on your hands!

I like Kotlin

Not as much as clojure, but it's a nice language.

I'd say, if you are going to have a type system, Kotlin has gotten it about right.

never used it - i see it has nil safety, which is good. does it also force you to handle all cases - e.g. if a case is on an enumeration type then you must provide a branch to handle every one of the possible enumeration type values or it's a compile error ?

@mccraigmccraig Yes, for cases where it can determine that your case list is exhaustive. If not, you need to provide a default case.

For enums though, yes, also for "instanceof" style checks on sealed classes

The type safe builder feature is really nice. Takes a bit of time to get your head around how they are using the type system to do it (at least it did for me), but having stuff like HTML DSLs which work a bit like hiccup but are type checked at compile time is all kinds of cool.

I too like Kotlin a lot. Much nicer than plain ol'java

and it has some really nifty features

so, doing both is a win in my books 🙂

If I wanted a better a java I’d totally choose Kotlin.

Looks much nicer for that than Scala.

Yeah, if I couldn't do Clojure full-time these days, I would want to do Kotlin...

I tried Scala a few times - not for me.

i tried scala (properly) once. hate at first sight

I had that same impression

I really didn’t like it either

Aside from the types it doesn’t know what it wants to be: A better java or a functional language? Which is it?

It's originally an academic language that tried to be a lot of things, including a better Java and a functional language. I'm surprised so many people built business systems with such an experimental language. I guess the need for a better Java was stronger than the need to build systems easy to maintain and upgrade through the years.

I used Scala in a production context for a while. I went to a lot of Scala meetups and a few conferences. They have a terrible problem with backward compatibility (the 2.7 -> 2.8 migration was horrendous!). The toolchain is all pretty slow. The language itself has a split personality (as Rick just indicated). Ultimately, it just didn't fit the way we wanted to work so that's when I introduced Clojure as a replacement for Scala.

The thing I found about Scala was that it was more interesting to learn that to actually work with. I read the Odersky book cover to cover twice and really enjoyed it. Each of the features in isolation struck me as really neat. I think I lasted about two weeks trying to build stuff with it. A huge problem with adoption though is you have to have a few years experience with it before you can even read the API docs. All this CanBuildFrom style crap everywhere.

Kotlin has a milder case of the same problem though with all that with and apply (etc) methods. I found an article recently that explained them all and each of them makes sense but variations on quite a small theme.

The thing that struck me is that I found that Scala comes from a very academic background, whereas Clojure (and Kotlin) have been driven very much by "industry" needs, more practical to solve business-problems coming from the rich(!) experience that Rich(! ha!) had and from the feedback and experience that JetBrains had. I see Scala as an academic language - detached from writing code day in/day out to solve business problems. I find Clojure and Kotlin so nice to use for doing that type of day in, day out coding! 🙂

Yeah, i'd agree with that. I'm not sure that Odersky intended it to be academic, but that seems to be the way it turned out.

Can you write kotlin in vim?

Like, sensibly?

Apart from the odd bit of editing using vim, I use IntelliJ for Kotlin work.

It would be nice to have a language & ecosystem which didn't expect an advanced IDE was present.