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Morning... last three days of working in Rotterdam.


Liverpool or Rome...


'Cause Rotterdam is anywhere


I'll be going a bridge too far... Arnhem.


Looks very pretty

Ben Hammond09:10:37

oh to start your full time clojure job?

Ben Hammond09:10:00

or did you start that this month?


I assumed it was to start the new job


I start on the 4th


but I realised the other day that both Rotterdam and Arnhem were affected by the war


War? I feel like I'm missing some important news

Ben Hammond11:10:56

wasn't almost all of Europe affected?

Wes Hall11:10:12

The Dutch wont consider WWII to be completely over until the Germans stop digging holes in their beaches. I learned this while living in Amsterdam for 18 months.


and yes, most of Europe was affected by the war, but Rotterdam got bombed at the start of the war (May 1940) and Arnhem was, of course, a bridge too far (Sep 1944).


the two places in the Netherlands that saw the most destruction I think.


most other places saw little fighting and little damage.


Does anyone have any particular sexy uses of tap that they use in their codebase? I've got something very trivial like this:


(defn my-spy
  (log/info message))

(add-tap my-spy)


where log is from clojure logging

Wes Hall12:10:59

Heresy perhaps, but while I love core/async in principle, I have typically found that the situations where benefits outweigh the complexity are quite rare. Even the whole "back pressure" argument seems to be a case of moving a problem away from where the actual problem is. It is, however, entirely possible that I lack vision.

Wes Hall12:10:04

Oh wait, that's a core thing?

Wes Hall12:10:18

Then no, on the basis that I have not seen it before πŸ™‚

Wes Hall12:10:37

Now having spent a bit of time reading about it, I am a little baffled as to why they felt the need to add this new weird stateful thing to the core API πŸ˜•


It's for diagnostics and for debugging


Also, things like Conjure and Rebl knows how to "listen" for taps, and display that on a running system


just another tool in the arsenal in helping to get the job done

Wes Hall12:10:47

Hopefully it will only get used for that kind of thing, because I can see people using this as some kind of weird internal event bus thing, which would be a nightmare to reason about.


nope, not seen that in the wild


all I've seen is it being using for it's intent - as a diagnostic tool/debugging tool

Wes Hall12:10:45

Well, that's good.


there are always exceptions, naturally, but thankfully not seen πŸ™‚


Clojurists are better people than that --- at least that's what I hope πŸ˜‰

Wes Hall12:10:46

Haha! I couldn't possibly comment πŸ˜‰

Wes Hall12:10:23

My scepticism probably stems from my fairly early Java days when the team I was on got their head around things like PropertyChangeListener and took the perspective of a young kid coming out of a sex ed class, which is to say, "I didn't know about this before, but now that I do, I want to do it as much as possible!".

Wes Hall12:10:56

Every mouse click was basically just an explosion.

Wes Hall12:10:30

Haha, yeah posted that to a BBC news discussion thread recently on the Google story πŸ™‚


shadow-cljs uses tap> for the new shadow remote inspect feature which is shaping up to be super useful for debugging cljs


we use tap so very much in our ruby codebase. I think it’s a bit of an antipattern to complect your methods/functions with side effects though


where possible it’s probably better to refactor and apply your side effects at the end of your return chain, in the case of logging build a report function or similar.

Ben Hammond13:10:30

just putting that out there in case


well i have an easy choice - libdems were close-ish second to tories in my constituency last time round

Ben Hammond13:10:44

easy choice for me too

Ben Hammond13:10:52

I've never voted SNP before

Ben Hammond13:10:56

first time for everything

Ben Hammond13:10:32

Tories were secondish to snp last time, so got to keep them out


a while back i swore i wouldn't ever vote libdem again... i probably won't make such rash promises in future

Ben Hammond13:10:21

ha well; overall I still think they did good thing from 2010-2015

Ben Hammond13:10:31

looking at what happened since


I literally moved to Scotland to find someone to vote for


(I'll be voting SNP, who are here anyway and likely to win again)


I couldn't vote in England... hence I moved as well πŸ˜‰


there is an amendment being proposed to change that @thomas I wonder what will happen. πŸ™‚


that would be nice (not that it would make any difference for me of course) but good for EU citizens in the UK and vice versa


I think it's going to end up in tears

Wes Hall14:10:42

So very very tempted to stand. I'd lose my deposit. Even my wife probably wouldn't vote for me, but it would be kind of cool to say you were a candidate in perhaps the most pivotal election of a generation.

Ben Hammond14:10:07

would you form your own party?


the clojure party

Ben Hammond14:10:19

can you stand for the Monster-Raving-Loonies?


clojure on everything


clojure on brexit

Wes Hall14:10:54

Most expensive in-joke ever


"With Clojure, we can finally get Closure?"


"Closure with Clojure?"


"Let's All Get Closer to Closure with Clojure?"

πŸ˜‚ 8
Ben Hammond14:10:37

Breaks-It Party


No Side Effects With The Clojure Party!

Ben Hammond14:10:07

ooh I like the bang you put on that on

πŸ˜‚ 12

get @metasoarous involved, make a policy of deep democracy and I’d consider voting for you

🎊 4
Wes Hall14:10:43

You'd need to be registered in Bermondsey and old Southwark

Ben Hammond14:10:43

deep democracy sounds a bit sinister

Ben Hammond15:10:28

I do find it interesting that they gave up on the space shuttle but are still flying these things

Ben Hammond15:10:46

I guess they don't have any kind of human life support

Ben Hammond15:10:55

so can save on a ton of weight/complexity


no support for.... human.... life

Ben Hammond15:10:50

completely superfluous

Wes Hall15:10:22

If I am elected, everybody will get their own top secret autonomous spy plane!

πŸŽ‰ 20
Wes Hall20:10:01

There we are then. Get your voting caps on πŸ™‚


This will all end in tears