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#clojure-uk
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2019-10-29
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thomas08:10:30

Morning... last three days of working in Rotterdam.

dharrigan08:10:06

Liverpool or Rome...

dharrigan08:10:23

'Cause Rotterdam is anywhere

thomas08:10:56

I'll be going a bridge too far... Arnhem.

yogidevbear09:10:48

Looks very pretty

Ben Hammond09:10:37

oh to start your full time clojure job?

Ben Hammond09:10:00

or did you start that this month?

yogidevbear09:10:22

I assumed it was to start the new job

thomas11:10:57

I start on the 4th

thomas11:10:49

but I realised the other day that both Rotterdam and Arnhem were affected by the war

yogidevbear11:10:40

War? I feel like I'm missing some important news

Ben Hammond11:10:56

wasn't almost all of Europe affected?

Wes Hall11:10:12

The Dutch wont consider WWII to be completely over until the Germans stop digging holes in their beaches. I learned this while living in Amsterdam for 18 months.

thomas12:10:00

and yes, most of Europe was affected by the war, but Rotterdam got bombed at the start of the war (May 1940) and Arnhem was, of course, a bridge too far (Sep 1944).

thomas12:10:09

the two places in the Netherlands that saw the most destruction I think.

thomas12:10:38

most other places saw little fighting and little damage.

dharrigan12:10:17

Does anyone have any particular sexy uses of tap that they use in their codebase? I've got something very trivial like this:

dharrigan12:10:21

(defn my-spy
  [message]
  (log/info message))

(add-tap my-spy)

dharrigan12:10:38

where log is from clojure logging

Wes Hall12:10:59

Heresy perhaps, but while I love core/async in principle, I have typically found that the situations where benefits outweigh the complexity are quite rare. Even the whole "back pressure" argument seems to be a case of moving a problem away from where the actual problem is. It is, however, entirely possible that I lack vision.

Wes Hall12:10:04

Oh wait, that's a core thing?

Wes Hall12:10:18

Then no, on the basis that I have not seen it before πŸ™‚

Wes Hall12:10:37

Now having spent a bit of time reading about it, I am a little baffled as to why they felt the need to add this new weird stateful thing to the core API πŸ˜•

dharrigan12:10:39

It's for diagnostics and for debugging

dharrigan12:10:08

Also, things like Conjure and Rebl knows how to "listen" for taps, and display that on a running system

dharrigan12:10:51

just another tool in the arsenal in helping to get the job done

Wes Hall12:10:47

Hopefully it will only get used for that kind of thing, because I can see people using this as some kind of weird internal event bus thing, which would be a nightmare to reason about.

dharrigan12:10:06

nope, not seen that in the wild

dharrigan12:10:24

all I've seen is it being using for it's intent - as a diagnostic tool/debugging tool

Wes Hall12:10:45

Well, that's good.

dharrigan12:10:47

there are always exceptions, naturally, but thankfully not seen πŸ™‚

dharrigan12:10:07

Clojurists are better people than that --- at least that's what I hope πŸ˜‰

Wes Hall12:10:46

Haha! I couldn't possibly comment πŸ˜‰

Wes Hall12:10:23

My scepticism probably stems from my fairly early Java days when the team I was on got their head around things like PropertyChangeListener and took the perspective of a young kid coming out of a sex ed class, which is to say, "I didn't know about this before, but now that I do, I want to do it as much as possible!".

Wes Hall12:10:56

Every mouse click was basically just an explosion.

Wes Hall12:10:30

Haha, yeah posted that to a BBC news discussion thread recently on the Google story πŸ™‚

danielneal13:10:40

shadow-cljs uses tap> for the new shadow remote inspect feature which is shaping up to be super useful for debugging cljs

flefik13:10:50

we use tap so very much in our ruby codebase. I think it’s a bit of an antipattern to complect your methods/functions with side effects though

flefik13:10:49

where possible it’s probably better to refactor and apply your side effects at the end of your return chain, in the case of logging build a report function or similar.

Ben Hammond13:10:30

just putting that out there in case

mccraigmccraig13:10:34

well i have an easy choice - libdems were close-ish second to tories in my constituency last time round

Ben Hammond13:10:44

easy choice for me too

Ben Hammond13:10:52

I've never voted SNP before

Ben Hammond13:10:56

first time for everything

Ben Hammond13:10:32

Tories were secondish to snp last time, so got to keep them out

mccraigmccraig13:10:22

a while back i swore i wouldn't ever vote libdem again... i probably won't make such rash promises in future

Ben Hammond13:10:21

ha well; overall I still think they did good thing from 2010-2015

Ben Hammond13:10:31

looking at what happened since

otfrom13:10:53

I literally moved to Scotland to find someone to vote for

otfrom13:10:25

(I'll be voting SNP, who are here anyway and likely to win again)

thomas15:10:15

I couldn't vote in England... hence I moved as well πŸ˜‰

otfrom17:10:04

there is an amendment being proposed to change that @thomas I wonder what will happen. πŸ™‚

thomas19:10:02

that would be nice (not that it would make any difference for me of course) but good for EU citizens in the UK and vice versa

dharrigan13:10:27

I think it's going to end up in tears

Wes Hall14:10:42

So very very tempted to stand. I'd lose my deposit. Even my wife probably wouldn't vote for me, but it would be kind of cool to say you were a candidate in perhaps the most pivotal election of a generation.

Ben Hammond14:10:07

would you form your own party?

danielneal14:10:17

the clojure party

Ben Hammond14:10:19

can you stand for the Monster-Raving-Loonies?

danielneal14:10:27

clojure on everything

danielneal14:10:38

clojure on brexit

Wes Hall14:10:54

Most expensive in-joke ever

dharrigan14:10:35

"With Clojure, we can finally get Closure?"

dharrigan14:10:44

"Closure with Clojure?"

dharrigan14:10:11

"Let's All Get Closer to Closure with Clojure?"

πŸ˜‚ 8
Ben Hammond14:10:37

Breaks-It Party

dharrigan14:10:45

No Side Effects With The Clojure Party!

Ben Hammond14:10:07

ooh I like the bang you put on that on

πŸ˜‚ 12
danielneal14:10:44

get @metasoarous involved, make a policy of deep democracy and I’d consider voting for you

🎊 4
Wes Hall14:10:43

You'd need to be registered in Bermondsey and old Southwark

Ben Hammond14:10:43

deep democracy sounds a bit sinister

Ben Hammond15:10:28

I do find it interesting that they gave up on the space shuttle but are still flying these things

Ben Hammond15:10:46

I guess they don't have any kind of human life support

Ben Hammond15:10:55

so can save on a ton of weight/complexity

otfrom15:10:03

no support for.... human.... life

Ben Hammond15:10:50

completely superfluous

Wes Hall15:10:22

If I am elected, everybody will get their own top secret autonomous spy plane!

πŸŽ‰ 20
Wes Hall20:10:01

There we are then. Get your voting caps on πŸ™‚

dharrigan21:10:14

This will all end in tears