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2018-10-02
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Morning
måning
Bore da
Morning.
but they are deadder
and brine-y-er
ah do you use eau de brine as your deodorant of choice as well? I've had good results 😛
New speaker meetup in London this evening, please consider joining to either practice or support others in their public speaking efforts. https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/find-your-java-voice-new-speaker-night-with-dedicated-womens-track-tickets-49982533102
do you know if they will have a meetup for that? is there a way to get notifications about future events?
@lady3janepl its run from out of the London Java Community http://meetup.com site, so if you are a member of that, then you can get notifications. I will suggest to them that they can also put new speaker events into the London Clojurians meetup site, as the signup is via event bright.
Anyone want to offer any pointers on where else I ought to put the job posted yesterday..? I realise that I can't expect miracles, but not a single tickle from Facebook, Slack, London Clojurians Jobs and Twitter... 😞
I suggest that once the post has dissappeard from the #jobs channel on slack, you can repost it
that's my go-to timespan too @maleghast
I seem to remember there was a push to list Clojure related jobs in one location / Twitter tag, but I can’t remember where
The problem with LinkedIn, from my perspective is as follows: 1. The moment I put it on LinkedIn as a post, someone from LinkedIn's Sales Team is going to start bugging me to buy a paid ad. 2. The breadth of my network and the network effect will put the JD, which is tailored to a Software Engineering Audience, in front of out-of-speciality people.
3. The moment I put it on LinkedIn EVERY RECRUITER IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE is going to message me telling me all the reasons why I will only get a good result if I engage them and only them to do the search for me.
Functional Jobs and Clojure for the Brave and True and (maybe) StackOverflow are the places where I would instinctively buy ads if we get no organic leads, but I am curious to know what others think...
Also, does anyone know of community-driven / free-to-use places to target JS devs who want to get into ClojureScript?
@thomas - Did that, but I guess Twitter is the kinda place that I can do it again without being accused of spamming...
Is it London based? I can RT it from Manchester's Lambda Lounge if you like, but not sure what luck you'll have if on-site only
@conor.p.farrell - Thanks, that would be great... It's "mostly London"; I live in Scotland, but I am in London 12 working days out of 20 each month
I would find it hard to insist a greater amount of in-office time from anyone joining my team, though a new hire might mean I am there more often for a short while too, but it could quickly settle into the same pattern as me.
@conor.p.farrell - Nice one, cheers 🙂
I've pushed the #jobs post from yesterday into #clojurescript and #reagent as well - why the heck not, that's what I say... 😉
I'd retweet, but the only people in my twittersphere who it would be relevant to are also on here 😉
Might still be worth it given all the hidden popularity based display order shenanigans
tbh I think salary might be an issue. Considering you’re looking for a senior engineer that range seems low
https://functional.works-hub.com/jobs/?search=clojure%20london displays some ranges of salary for reference
Half the jobs listed on the end of the link you posted offer salaries within the range offered.
The salary monitoring websites put Senior Java Devs in the same price-bracket. I was trying to pitch it at someone who is an enthusiast with the Front End chops who wants a way in to Clojure / Clojurescript and also wants a gig that is about more than the money
I’m not being paid remotely what every other recruiter I meet tells me that I could be making, but the mission inside this gig is a big factor.
Mission match is not an immediate thing, tbh. People are not criticising, just trying to point in potential points of delay in finding a good match.
That’s cool - I am just frustrated. It’s not your fault that you and @U0DPX8ZQB have pointed out a valid issue, @lady3janepl 🙂
Only if it’s code for “ReactJS Guru” There are loads of JavaScript / HTML / CSS jobs out there with Senior on the title offering out at £35-40k
Yeah, I’m more used to seeing seniors at 50 and above, for the definition of “you can give them a generally defined task and leave them alone to research and figure their way out”
I mean I do agree with what you are both saying as I may well have got the perception sell wrong, but for the level of experience, autonomy and responsibility that this role represents the money is generous without being an attempt to buy a candidate - after all we really do need someone from a character-fit side of things to be motivated by more things than money
Nonetheless, I genuinely appreciate the feedback and I can’t help but think that it was a misstep on my part now I look at it from a different perspective.
> after all we really do need someone from a character-fit side of things to be motivated by more things than money I feel that’s a cope out, but can understand why people thing that. You should still be paying market rates and being motivated about the vision of the company is extra.
> Yeah, I’m more used to seeing seniors at 50 and above, for the definition of “you can give them a generally defined task and leave them alone to research and figure their way out” I think mid level engineers should have that definition and in London I’d say the range was 40-65. Unfortunately if you join and stay at a company at a low salary don’t expect major pay rises 😞
@U0DPX8ZQB - I can respect that position, but what if we can’t afford that..? I mean seriously? I took a £20k pay cut to work at the BBC back in 2014 - it was totally worth it in terms of what it did for my career and what it did for me personally in terms of feeling as though I did something good with my time / skills / effort
Honestly, and re-reading the ad, I think the upper range is fair for a person that ticks your musts. It’s just that I’d expect more from a senior so I think there may be confusion 🙂
I am currently taking home some__ far less than I could__ get the market to bear, I am not a founder, I do really believe in what we are doing.
@lady3janepl - depends… When I’ve recruited for Ruby devs I got immediate traction, within 24-48 hours. I’ve always thought that the Clojure Community in London needed more jobs. last year at Clojure eXchange nearly half the delegates were not working in Clojure.
I guess I was rather hoping that people were still hungry for roles that represent a chance to go from fan to paid practitioner.
one thing you might want to watch out for is if people join your company just to get some experience in clojure and then leave for a better paid job
@U0DPX8ZQB - I do see where you are coming from, but if I had the budget to recruit more people then Senior would make sense as this role would be the most Senior role on the Front End. We’re not looking for a team lead, we’re not looking for someone with Architecture skills, or indeed someone who is already__ a ClojureScript developer, necessarily, but they will be the most senior Front End dev in our organisation.
@U0DPX8ZQB - Right now that would be acceptable to me. If we only paid someone for 6 months ’cos they stepping-stoned out of here to something else, but in that 6 months we had a Front End capable body, without paying contractor rates, I would be ok with hiring again.
Clearly I would rather someone came for the mission and stayed for the mission, and that we built a stable team, but I accept that I can’t be sure of that, even with an extended interview process…
@maleghast if you decide to look at FunctionalWorks, talk to me first 😉
@maleghast have you considered doing a lightning talk for the https://www.meetup.com/Front-Endgineers-London/ ? Its organise by the same people who run the London Java Community. Or my friend runs https://www.findatechjob.com/ which runs events to match companies with those looking for work (this is not a recruitment agency).
are you locked in bitter rivalry with WeFarm? 8-P
@ben.hammond - No, not at all, they are a different proposition to us entirely - well almost entirely.
ah right they are more of a social network you are more of an analytics platform
Yeah, and they have effectively no engagement with the wider Agri-business world. They are for farmers, all their value proposition and efforts is focused on farmers / growers. We are trying to provide something that can be worthwhile across the whole space, to farmers, merchants, co-ops, and even large food businesses.