Morning

o/

good morning

https://medium.com/@JoshuaKerievsky/the-noend-developer-f41f35603e64

someone tweeted this yesterday

morning

mogge 😼

Morning!

Bore da

🤯

Ahoy

Morning

månmån

thank you @guy... but I think I might need something stronger...

what’s happened?

my head exploded.... customer 1 raised a blocker... customer 2 provided the wrong data... (now rectified) customer 3 wants everything now.... PM asks every 10 minutes how things are going....

and all I got was a 🍩

😞

And its not even friday 😞

Morning 🍩

morning doughnuts aren't good for you.

donuts are the breakfast of champions

sumo champions best champions!

thank you @lady3janepl 🙏

if you send them via computer they'll only come out in bits

(really, more food based dad puns?)

pls no

😞

@otfrom you should never send them via computer. Just fax them, that is way more reliable.

most machines these days miss the requisite hardware, but we used to be able to do this

via cd drives

why do you think cds had a hole through the middle, huh?

I worry that computers might be alternative fax

nothing happens if you sit on them, so that at least is an improvement

and computers could also double as a coffee-cup-holder. they removed that function!

Just peeked at Groovy slack channel.. Seems haunted

I am looking for JVM lang rankings by slack community size.

I believe Jruby might be active. My gut feeling says Jython and Groovy are endangered species

For all those complaining about elitism in clojure, please try other JVM languages and wait for support

I read the clojure community survey results. Someone was asking for JCP kind of process to evolve the language. Isn't Lisp all about creating your own domain specific language without depending on BDFLs?

If you want a feature go ahead and implement it as a library. who is stopping you with the dictator role?

certainly the idea is that you can do what you want in libraries and that for the most part the core of the language should remain small and stable

Besides TIOBE index and github rankings by # of repos, is there any ranking based on how active a language's google group/slack channel/twitter buzz is?

JVM specific ranking could be more useful metric to juxtapose clojure vs other JVM langs

TIOBE shows Clojure at rank 33

redmonk do a ranking

TIOBE is not a good metric to push for clojure usage in corporate world

We have a bunch of clojure enthusiasts in our company. But not enough data to get a clojure adaptation..

Managers and recruiters are concerned about "programmer replaceability" - a point that rich hickey touched upon in his talks

Just looked at redmonk ranking 2017. Again it is not JVM specific..

no, but there are enough JVM langs in there to create a subranking

who is complaining about elitism in clojure ?

Not me. I quite like being elite.

https://edassets.org/img/preview/rank-9.png

is that elite dangerous? :thinking_face:

to google

i think it is :thinking_face:

I'm not smart enough to learn a lang with mutation and more syntax any more

I just like working with happy kind people nowadays

thats all i want from a job 😞

like if ur gonna work with someone 8 hours a day or more

u want them to be positive in some ways ya know?

@guy happy kind people are nice, but i wouldn't really want a job with happy kind people and a lang which depressed the crap out of me

can they be happy with that sort of language tho :thinking_face:

Does clojure make you and your colleagues happier

😄

@mccraigmccraig https://twitter.com/danielwithmusic/status/978776161705607168

https://gist.github.com/reborg/a9736c8f6045aa53e6022eb452a93db5

I feel like the elitism is more a functional programming thing really

🤷

Being in the Clojure community since around 1.2, I loved the language then, and I like the direction, it's been taking since. The community is great, very friendly and even its most controversial figures are usually polite, intelligent people. Heck, even the local troll from the mailing list is occasionally helpful, stays on point in his threads and sticks with the conversation, even after blowing stuff up. Another thing, that I want to add, is that practicing Clojure for that long has recently started paying huge dividends for me: When I started going to the Vienna Meetups, around 3 years ago, people were asking around for positions to do Clojure professionally. Around the beginning of last year, 2017, the market flipped and now companies are seeking to hire Clojure talent. This means more people being interested in Clojure, which is great for me, because I like to converse about it ;-) Reading through this, I'm realizing, that I probably shouldn't have taken the survey right after coming home from a party, drunk, but anyway, it's there now and I'm not backspacing it. As usual, thanks a ton for the great work! Clojure really does enable me to translate my programming passion into awesome programs, in a very effective and efficient way. cheers

😂

s/functional programming/minority programming used by developer preference/

true true

how to add 3 like reactions?

ohhh

sorry

yes

i dont know if u can

I have said and will say again: clojure is the most fun I've had programming since I learned logo. And I was 11 then.

ok. two more people, please add two more to dominic's

for me the greatest effort was to get used to parens

as my brain was wired up for curly braces.

I am interested in clojure as java syntax is a bit of "dilation" (if I can borrow Mr speaker's words)

But I have worry that clojure can add cognitive load while reading the code (yet to write a full app. this is a feeling as a beginner)

(defn dosomething [ a b c])

I have to wonder what is a, is it a map , vector, record?

the biggest switch I had to make when moving from java to clojure when reading was slowing down. clojure code is dense in a way java code really isn't

and Martin Fowler has a word for it. He talked about it in his speech about code refactoring

I forgot the exact word. But he was saying if your code makes people to think hard to understand, you should refactor it to simplify

I am thining of making it a standard practice to add type hints in function args

for readability sake

your (defn dosomething [ a b c]) feels like it is missing an implementation for the function

yes I agree. But when I am starting to read a function, I have to worry what their types and then go through the code to remind me what type it's going to be

spec is supposed to help with documenting what goes into a function (sorry I got wrong footed on your description above, I see what you are driving at).

The other day i was introduced to reduce-kv by sean. I looked it up in clojuredocs, the params are single letters.. it took some time to get my head around it.

have you seen https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide

swift has nice feature, we can have an alias to a param. The alias is used in API docs. But the code uses the short form param

This is quite a nice way to understand clojure conventions

like what k or v mean or m

typically

I'm not saying its true everywhere

but theres some elements of truth

like this for example

:man-shrugging:

😄

thanks a lot!!

^ I found that super useful when I found it

I want a JCP process for enhancing Clojure to accept param aliases like swift lang. Or, help me to extend the lang..

👀

why?

just kidding

😂

you got me

haha

my attempt at humor

I've found that naming params "a" doesn't happen all that much (outside of utilities at least). Most of the time I'm talking about re-used abstractions, which are clear from something (sql schema, params schema, seed data, etc.)

To expand, my params are usually "user" and such.

i'll often use a suffix to indicate 'container' types, such as user-s for a stream of users, or user-d for a Deferred<user>

how about something along the lines of "^:is user-seq" users

@mccraigmccraig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation

yeah, i remember joel's post on apps-vs-systems hungarian... i don't generally bother with hungarian at all, finding just the names enough, excepting containers... i've got a lot of monadic code and knowing whether something is e.g. a user or a promise<user> is crucial

“I promise I will be a user at one point”… sounds like they need more commitment 😉

i used to find it scary having a chain of promises a couple of hundred long

Morning

I quite often just use longer names tbh so user-seq or whatever. The style guide is useful but readable params is the main goal. Also type hinting a long when doing interop reminds you to check your java isn't going to blow up your clojure :)