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#clojure-uk
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2017-05-04
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agile_geek05:05:40

morning Happy Starwars day! May the 4th be with you.

agile_geek05:05:18

I have watched a few of Martin Kleppmann's talks and they're awesome. I remember him saying that book was years in the making​!

yogidevbear05:05:51

And May the 4th be with you too Chris 😂

yogidevbear07:05:07

The Queen's apparently called an emergency family meeting at the palace

thomas07:05:29

where did you read/hear that @yogidevbear ?

thomas07:05:57

I am haven't been invited... so can't be that important 😉

yogidevbear07:05:09

Trending a bit on twitter and searching for "news buckingham palace" brings up some stories. BBC had this to say eventually http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39801908

yogidevbear07:05:01

My best guess, the royals have decided to emigrate to Europe 😆 facepalm

mccraigmccraig08:05:20

perhaps they will change their family name back

thomas08:05:08

but the queen doesn't have a passport.... and she is not a citizen (and certainly not a subject).... so how would that work?

thomas08:05:21

do any of the other royals have a passport?

thomas08:05:03

and another question... assuming it would Prince Philip's family name they would take, but which on is it? Saxe-Coburg and Gotha ?

thomas08:05:40

he became a Mountbatten when he became British.

thomas08:05:48

(according to Wikipedia)

mccraigmccraig08:05:53

it's way too complicated @thomas . it would be much better if they all did the decent thing and guillotined themselves

thomas08:05:27

quite a radical solution tbh... but thorough never the less.

maleghast09:05:34

May the Fourth be with you All 🙂

Rachel Westmacott09:05:36

pseudo-random core function of the day:

-------------------------
clojure.core/force
([x])
  If x is a Delay, returns the (possibly cached) value of its expression, else returns x

Rachel Westmacott09:05:22

…and apparently Prince Philip is stepping down from his public duties. I’m not sure how we’ll survive the Brexit negotiations without his seasoned diplomacy on hand.

agile_geek09:05:01

@thomas It has an alternative spelling "Saxe-Coburg-Gotha" and it's from the Queens lineage (via Prince Albert - Prince Consort to Queen Victoria)

agile_geek09:05:24

Prince Phillip is from the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg family

thomas09:05:00

thank you for the clarification @agile_geek

agile_geek09:05:24

You know me.... I don't know anything useful but I know trivia

agile_geek09:05:56

And yes I knew this without Googling but had to check the spelling!

dominicm09:05:48

force is interesting

thomas09:05:03

@agile_geek you should join the trivia quiz team I was part of.

thomas09:05:01

it would require you to travel to the Hampshire country side once a month though.

agile_geek10:05:02

They can google hangout me in!

mccraigmccraig11:05:45

probably not helping you @agile_geek but spacemacs dark theme is the nicest i have yet found 😬

agile_geek12:05:18

@minimal I did.... struck me as extremely arrogant....but I'm no language designer! I would jsut leave a comment to hang in the air "he's only been a professional developer since 2008" - Rich Hickey (25+ years and counting)

minimal12:05:37

yeah i thought that too @agile_geek

agile_geek12:05:25

to put that in perspective in 2008 I had been a professional programmer for 20 years and I still think I could never create a language

minimal12:05:49

maybe a bit of arrogance is needed to motivate you to bother creating a new lang in the first place

agile_geek12:05:24

Maybe but the interview put me off ever trying Lux. I worry about what community the language might attract?

minimal12:05:17

> One of the things that turned me away from Clojure was that much of its design felt like a hack. seems a bit OTT

dominicm12:05:14

What about Clojure feels like a hack?

minimal12:05:23

especially since he has written lux in clojure

minimal12:05:58

you’d have to ask him

agile_geek12:05:00

I think Clojure's design has a number of compromises...and good basis for just about all of them.

glenjamin12:05:29

clojure’s implementation might feel a bit hacky sometimes, but it’s design seems pretty solid IME

thomas12:05:32

nothing is perfect and clj(s) has it weird parts (`pr-str` vs. read-string anyone?). but it is usable. and I like the fact that it focusses on simplicity.

mccraigmccraig12:05:28

i've been looking at lux for a while - and i can't do it quite yet, but as long as it continues on it's current trajectory for a couple more point releases i will probably be moving code from clojure over to lux

mccraigmccraig12:05:22

he might come across as arrogant in the interview, but he's not arrogant at all on gitter, so i presume there is a second-language & idiom thing going on

mccraigmccraig12:05:27

his code is awesome and has answers to all the (technical) problems i have with clojure - check it out, though read the gitbook first, lux is quite different from clojure

minimal12:05:58

interesting

otfrom12:05:59

@agile_geek @thomas surely the house is still Hanover.

agile_geek12:05:02

@otfrom I think that's true too but Victoria adopted Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (I think)

agile_geek12:05:29

Any way you dice it ...they're Germans!

mccraigmccraig12:05:35

i think the principal problems i have with clojure are - [1] E_DYNLANG - lack of static type checking [2] global namespace and i can't see them ever being solved (in clojure)

otfrom12:05:35

the important thing is to remember that the monarchs of England since 1066 have been French, Welsh, Scottish and German. And the French and German ones went through a few monarchs before they were even bothered to speak English.

otfrom12:05:58

Henry IV (1367) was the 1st king to speak English natively. George III the first of the Hanoverians.

agile_geek12:05:41

Yeah... I knew about George I & II not speaking English

agile_geek12:05:18

Bring back the Welsh I say...although they were Normans via Wales!

geek-draven12:05:08

The Welsh were the Britons, that ran away when when the Saxons arrived 🙂

otfrom12:05:48

Wales Walendas in Anglo-Saxon which means foreigner. Bit of a cheek that

otfrom12:05:57

I still like the number of rivers named Avon

agile_geek13:05:27

Yep bloody foreigners...who were here before us...and the Romans

otfrom13:05:42

Some invader comes in. Points at the flowing water and grunts. The local Briton goes "It is a river you dimwitted imbecile" and it gets called the River River.

otfrom13:05:47

(Avon meaning River)

agile_geek13:05:06

Isn't there a River River River somewhere in the World? Vaguely remember it being "River x-y" where x and y were other languages words for river?

agile_geek13:05:13

Rio Grande River is quite good - River Big River

agile_geek13:05:33

Similarly River Avonmore - Big river river

agile_geek13:05:51

Tal-y-llyn Lake is definitely just a welshman taking the piss out of the English! - End-of-the-lake Lake

thomas13:05:53

just send them all back from where they came! I'd say!

agile_geek13:05:21

What send the English back to Saxony?

Rachel Westmacott13:05:52

Send all the air breathing land beasts back into the sea where they came from!

agile_geek13:05:25

And the Angles back to Schleswig-Holstein?

agile_geek13:05:53

Or Normandy? Or Denmark/Norway? Where will it end?

Rachel Westmacott13:05:21

can I ask a code-related question?

Rachel Westmacott13:05:53

does anyone find it weird that I can have a namespace alias and a local “variable” with the same name, and this doesn’t seem to cause problems?

Rachel Westmacott13:05:27

(and does it sometimes cause subtle problems I haven’t yet noticed!?)

agile_geek13:05:06

Nope. It's pretty unambiguous as ns/fn doesn't get confused with fn

Rachel Westmacott13:05:37

I can see that the symbols would always differ, but somehow it sets an alarm ringing in my mental model

agile_geek13:05:57

i.e. all ns are followed by a slash when ref'ing var's in them

agile_geek13:05:46

I think local var's inside a fn or let shadowing unqualified fn's is more confusing

agile_geek13:05:42

(defn my-fn [str] .....)

agile_geek13:05:14

Obviously that str is the var bound to the arg not the fn str

agile_geek13:05:54

but I find that more jarring then ns aliases that shadow fn's

Rachel Westmacott13:05:30

yeah - I used to have a linter that warned me about that one - but I got fed up with most of my linters and switched them off

dominicm13:05:39

This has shadowing detection using tools.reader & analyzer (analyzer will probably go away soon)

dominicm13:05:51

But only for core function

Rachel Westmacott14:05:31

yes, that’s what I was using

jasonbell14:05:15

(now I feel kind of awake)…. Morning!

Rachel Westmacott14:05:51

Can anyone tell me why (swap! a rest) doesn’t seem to work on an atom containing an infinite lazy sequence?

Rachel Westmacott14:05:28

it turns out the REPL is trying to print the result, and it’s quite long

agile_geek14:05:26

Use (set! *print-length* 10) to restrict the amount the repl prints (in this case to 10 items)

minimal14:05:23

I’ve been using https://github.com/candid82/joker as a linter recently (in emacs with flycheck-joker) and I like it

minimal14:05:19

Good for basic stuff on the fly. It’s written in go so doesn’t cover everything, but works on code that doesn’t compile and cljs

dominicm16:05:27

@minimal I want to integrate that into my workflow, what kind of things does it catch?

minimal16:05:09

unused imports, wrong arguments to local functions, missing symbols, badly formed builtin macros

minimal16:05:39

It doesn’t look outside the current file or core to simplify things though

dominicm16:05:53

that's perfect

minimal16:05:55

but i catches quite a lot still

dominicm16:05:50

I'll contribute those upstream to relevant vim plugins then 🙂

minimal16:05:41

I never got on with the linters that have to load a whole project, they usually bail and are slow

otfrom21:05:45

eduction looks like some of the magic

otfrom21:05:08

200 GB of data is definitely annoying size