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#clojure-uk
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2017-01-04
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benedek08:01:53

morning. functional works getting lots of heat on twitter for running the mailonline clj role

jasonbell08:01:34

@benedek I don’t really subscribe to Twitter users encircling. If someone wants a job there then that person should have the freedom to pursue that job if they wish.

benedek08:01:15

fair point. I guess it just gives an impression of what some ppl think. disclaimer: i worked for the mailonline, in fact i learned clojure there 😉

jasonbell09:01:30

Everyone has their own tastes and opinions. If the aim it to earn a living and that’s the route to do it, then fair play and all that.

glenjamin09:01:42

I’d say that same logic applies to the freedom to criticise those choices on twitter 😄

acron09:01:21

that's the gist of the 'heat' ?

jasonbell09:01:37

@glenjamin actually yes, that’s right too 🙂

glenjamin09:01:38

the gist i got was “can we stop working with news orgs that push the messages they do?"

acron09:01:45

I should have guessed

tcoupland09:01:32

i guess the question is, do you think by working there you are endorsing their message? or is it just a job.

glenjamin09:01:51

I guess that depends if you’re working to take them down from within

glenjamin09:01:22

I often wonder how much of that sort of thing is editoral pressure vs hiring people with certain beliefs

glenjamin09:01:59

Especially if you’re a journalist - it’s not like there are millions of alternative high-paying journalism jobs

jonpither09:01:21

There are lots of Europeans taking jobs there they do not share the same perception of the place that many that have lived in the UK many years do.

benedek09:01:43

haha i never forget my first landlord’s face when i told him I gonna work for the mailonline. i deffo got a hint there… (my first uk job was for the mailonline)

benedek09:01:47

so i am somewhat a good example of what jonpither said

tcoupland09:01:24

this seems more like a pub conversation 🙂

jasonbell09:01:01

any excuse @tcoupland, any excuse 🙂

tcoupland09:01:36

i'm past excuses now!

jonpither09:01:34

We're meeting up for a few at Jan 13th around Euston/Camden..

jonpither09:01:40

pack and carriage

tcoupland09:01:37

that would be great, a bit to far to pop for me though. will have to engineer some london meeting around the next time!

yogidevbear11:01:29

So is the general consensus in this room that mailonline is a bit dubious by nature? I've never been on their site before so don't know anything about them as a news outlet

agile_geek11:01:40

@yogidevbear I think we in this room share some biases that mean that we tend towards a more liberal, progressive viewpoint and the mailonline has a strong right wing (often xenophobic) style. However, as with all things, I suspect the personal position of a lot of the journalists is not that strongly held but making controversial headlines sells copy.

yogidevbear11:01:25

Which is the main issue with media in general at the moment I think (re "headlines sells copy")

yogidevbear11:01:32

Interesting: >In August 2016 the Daily Mail began a partnership with The People's Daily, the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party.[54][55] This includes publishing articles in the MailOnline produced by The People's Daily.

yogidevbear11:01:30

So the Daily Mail and MailOnline are under the same "umbrella" company, is that correct?

agile_geek11:01:24

I believe the MailOnline is just the digital version of the Daily Mail, i.e. same journalists.

yogidevbear11:01:38

Ah, ok. That makes sense now

yogidevbear11:01:28

Ovo energy sounds like a much better company (from a company ethos perspective) simple_smile

benedek12:01:39

@agile_geek mailonline does republish some article from the paper version but it has its own publisher and editorial staff

benedek12:01:31

in fact mailonline trying (and successfully I guess) to go international. it is getting popular in the states and also in aus. not sure that the same is true for the paper version

agile_geek12:01:37

"Omniscient being of your choice" help us! Is there room for another Fox News in the US market?

benedek12:01:20

haha, it seems… 🙂

agile_geek12:01:13

Is it only me that wishes Aaron Sorkin's view of both the US President and US News Networks was closer to the real world?

otfrom13:01:23

I think you just need to do more cocaine

otfrom13:01:22

well, it works for Sorkin. You just don't take enough agile_geek

agile_geek13:01:51

otfrom: explains a lot

jasonbell13:01:11

Thought I’d stick some Clojure in here, you know, for the laugh 🙂

otfrom13:01:44

I was wondering what people thought of this lib: http://funcool.github.io/urania/latest/

yogidevbear13:01:49

Looks pretty interesting

mccraigmccraig14:01:24

i looked at it a while ago - i thought i might come back to it when i next update the fetch layer of our app. pretty much everything funcool i've used has been great

agile_geek14:01:54

What's the TL;DR version?

mccraigmccraig14:01:07

manages composing of async fetch operations - identity, request deduplication, caching and coordination

otfrom14:01:33

mccraigmccraig & minimal with all the monadic like things in funcool do you think they lack by not having clojure.spec things yet?

otfrom14:01:55

I feel part of what is good about monads in something like haskell is having the compiler tell you if you've handled everything

minimal14:01:53

I think it might be tricky for cats because at the moment they use binding vars to set the current context/monad

minimal14:01:27

They were planning to move to a more data oriented approach but they didn’t find the time I think

minimal14:01:03

But test.check is good for testing that you have implemented laws like associativity, identity etc

minimal14:01:53

Not sure how binding fits in with spec testing

otfrom15:01:38

binding vars?!?!? I didn't think those would be threadsafe (or are they thread local?)

rickmoynihan15:01:22

binding & vars are thread local and safe

mccraigmccraig15:01:56

@otfrom the hidden protocol methods have explicit contexts passed - i think it's just the entrypoints which require binding vars, probably for hysterical raisins

minimal15:01:17

urania doesn’t use cats though as it uses the AST approach

otfrom20:01:35

minimal mccraigmccraig does cats play better with spec then?

yogidevbear21:01:00

Yay! Chapter 4 of Living Clojure complete. defrecord and deftype were interesting.

yogidevbear22:01:09

>How to Use Clojure Projects and Libraries

yogidevbear22:01:44

Finally discusses clojars

yogidevbear22:01:05

And then after that is core.async 🎉

yogidevbear22:01:24

I think this is where things get interesting

yogidevbear22:01:40

At least interesting for me 😄