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#clojure-uk
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2016-10-18
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maleghast02:10:28

@malcolmsparks - I was just last week singing the praises of that article to my team and encouraging them to embrace the idea that pursuing DRY at all costs was some way off the mark, that sometimes it is better to duplicate that over-complicate the implementation. They looked at me like I had poured gasoline on their mums šŸ˜ž

thomas08:10:30

2 weeks till I start my clj job...

otfrom09:10:56

congrats thomas

maleghast09:10:07

Morning yā€™all (itā€™s evening here, but hey-ho)

maleghast09:10:52

@thomas Are you in a position to tell us more about it beyond ā€œClojure, Rotterdamā€?

maleghast09:10:07

(sā€™ok if not, just curious, not pressure-y)

maleghast09:10:16

@thomas Oh cool - I will go and have a look...

thomas09:10:37

you probably want to use google translate thoughā€¦ itā€™s all in Dutch I think

maleghast09:10:24

It is, and I have - looks very interesting šŸ™‚

maleghast09:10:49

Hooray for exciting changes šŸ™‚

thomas09:10:00

and yes, very excitedā€¦. after 16 years of big blue and the UK it will be a big change.

maleghast09:10:19

Yes, I bet it will šŸ™‚

maleghast10:10:23

Iā€™ve not been keeping up with Clojure and the community as much as I want to lately (busy times with day job), but am I right that people are broadly speaking saying good things about clojure.spec..?

tcoupland10:10:34

i think we're still at the 'excited' stage of adoption šŸ™‚

maleghast10:10:45

Right, in that case I think I probably ought to read upā€¦ šŸ˜‰

tcoupland10:10:49

the chasm of disappointment is just over the horizon

maleghast10:10:15

Perhaps I should wait for that..?

tcoupland10:10:01

it does really scratch a itch that's for sure. definitely check it out

tcoupland10:10:35

once your beyond the toy examples though i'm finding it a bit trickier in places, not because of the tool as such, but just trickier to work it into the project and developing a sense of when it's not worth adding

agile_geek10:10:54

@tcoupland there's the rub with most things!

maleghast10:10:38

@agile_geek @tcoupland - Perhaps I will read around and wait to see how people with more hands-on time with Clojure use it before I get too excited in that case...

tcoupland10:10:15

o drat, didn't mean to put you off! It's the most exciting thing going on in clj land right now, so you should jump right in šŸ™‚

otfrom10:10:46

+1 to spec

otfrom10:10:01

I'm using it for testing and coercion in my spark stuff atm

otfrom10:10:05

pretty happy with it

maleghast10:10:51

@otfrom - Good to know, thanks

maleghast10:10:00

@tcoupland - Donā€™t worry, you didnā€™t put me off, I just have very limited time to explore code-stuff at the moment, and was ā€œokā€ with hanging back and waiting until smarter people had figured it all out, so that once more I can stand on the shoulders of giants šŸ˜‰

maleghast10:10:24

@otfrom - Are you using Flambo with Spark..?

otfrom10:10:55

maleghast sparkling, which is a fork from flambo

otfrom10:10:06

I like the idea of RDDs being thread last. šŸ˜‰

otfrom10:10:27

I think either is fine, but flambo didn't work w/clojure 1.9 last I checked

maleghast10:10:46

@otfrom - Ah yes of course, clojure.spec is a 1.9 thing...

maleghast10:10:11

Spark is something that I want to have a use for...

jasonbell10:10:40

I still prefer Sparkling over Flambo too

dominicm10:10:31

And the vim club grows šŸ˜ˆ

jasonbell10:10:48

@agile_geek possibly itā€™s just what I got started with. Iā€™ve tried Flambo out on more the Spark Streaming stuff and hit the odd roadblock, Onyx ended up being a better fit.

agile_geek10:10:28

šŸ‘ for Onyx

jasonbell10:10:39

donā€™t shout that too loud, letā€™s wait until 1st Dec šŸ™‚

agile_geek11:10:26

@jasonbell looking forward to it!

markwoodhall11:10:04

@dominicm is vim considered the dark side here? šŸ˜

dominicm11:10:26

@markwoodhall mostly just not on the radar.

otfrom11:10:54

Vim is awesome. I just don't use it šŸ˜‰

agile_geek12:10:06

@markwoodhall we embrace all editors! Vim is gr8 especially with Fireplace (although I also don't use it). Personally I think the min requirements for a useful editor for Clojure are: 1. Structural editing 2. Decent REPL interaction

agile_geek12:10:31

Therefore Vim definitely qualifies

agile_geek12:10:04

Spacemacs might be worth looking at?

spike12:10:39

vim w/fireplace was good enough for a long time for me

spike12:10:54

then i paired with someone who really knew their emacs

spike12:10:33

and realised that it had better support for the kinds of movements you want to be doing w/ clojure

spike12:10:03

so then went spacemacs (because i thought i couldnā€™t live w/o vim bindings), then eventually just went for emacs w/prelude. havenā€™t looked back

spike12:10:25

spacemacs is a very good halfway house, but it does have A LOT going on

markwoodhall12:10:35

I did try spacemacs for quite a while, I didnā€™t really get on with it very well to be honest.

dominicm13:10:46

My argument against switching is essentially that I don't want my language to dictate my editor. My editor should be flexible enough without having to be thrown out every time I change language.

dominicm13:10:29

@spike I might say that vim-sexp or vim-paredit were the missing motions/objects you were looking for šŸ˜›

gjnoonan14:10:18

Having been a Vim user for 18 years+ I will argue that nothing comes close to it for editing text, but I started using spacemacs around a year ago and fell in love with Emacs tools (org-mode+++, magit+++). I want to strip down to plain emacs and start building on top of it because a) itā€™s customised to me and b) I like to know how everything works underneath ā€¦ saying all of that I am currently in Idea + cursive, and it is also awesome

seancorfield16:10:47

I'll give another šŸ‘:skin-tone-2: for Emacs/Prelude. Especially since it's maintained by the same person who does CIDER and Projectile so it all plays very nicely together.

korny16:10:16

I do all my clojure with Intellij/cursive. I started in Emacs, but then I needed to write some Java, and it is still horrible for that. Funny, it was Java that stopped me using Emacs 16 years ago, and itā€™s still the biggest barrier now šŸ™‚

dominicm16:10:58

Says more about Java than it does Emacs I think

korny16:10:19

yep - 16 years later, I still hate Java, and Iā€™m still forced to use it šŸ™‚

agile_geek17:10:38

I don't hate Java. It does the job. It's not fun, but it does the job.

mccraigmccraig17:10:01

i'm with @korny on java šŸ˜¬

jasonbell18:10:59

Never had an issue with Java but @otfrom gives me odd looks when I mention its name šŸ™‚

otfrom19:10:08

I still do my java in Emacs. Have done my whole career. The only time I've not used Emacs to programming was when I was doing Salesforce

mccraigmccraig21:10:51

anyone with strong syntax-quoting foo around ?