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#clojure-uk
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2016-08-08
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maleghast00:08:46

(well it’s morning here anyway)

broquaint03:08:36

Morning @maleghast, still in The Philippines? 🙂

maleghast03:08:43

I am indeed @broquaint 🙂 How are you doing?

maleghast03:08:46

And where are you in the world - still EARLY in the UK 🙂

broquaint03:08:02

I’m well, thanks, yourself?

broquaint03:08:22

And I’m in Thailand ATM where the hour is reasonable 😉

otfrom08:08:22

mccraigmccraig: but today is AWESOME! I've got a new org-mode config. ;-)

otfrom08:08:49

(/◔ ◡ ◔)/

mccraigmccraig08:08:24

i've got netty-based jar-hell, which is not nearly as AWESOME

mccraigmccraig08:08:52

it seems having more than one transitive dependency to netty in your project is a recipe for sadness. maybe not today, but sometime soon

mccraigmccraig08:08:35

fortunately the authors of one of those transitive dependencies have also realised this and moved off of netty, so there is hope

mccraigmccraig08:08:22

just gotta upgrade one more thing...

otfrom08:08:38

mccraigmccraig: well, that shouldn't take long at least...

otfrom09:08:51

mmm... and I've got an openvpn config working now that doesn't gobble all of my outbound connections. :-D

otfrom09:08:22

mccraigmccraig: is netty the devil?

mccraigmccraig09:08:26

not with netty actually, but jnats - which is supposed to be saving me from netty-hell

thomas10:08:34

Morning... I can't confirm or deny that I have an interview in 10 minutes while on holiday in NL. 😋

agile_geek11:08:44

@thomas: well good luck either with your interview (if you had one) and your holiday regardless! 😉

dominicm11:08:06

That url is just beautiful.

quentin11:08:25

maybe good luck then thomas 🙂

mccraigmccraig11:08:04

@dominicm: i chose to do a PR for the upstream library and make the package-private class public...

otfrom12:08:59

mccraigmccraig: have you found a lang or OS with a good packaging system?

mccraigmccraig12:08:11

@otfrom: there seem to be two main aspects - the runtime mechanisms for implementing packaging, and the package archive

mccraigmccraig12:08:24

node seems to have a great runtime mechanism and an awful archive

mccraigmccraig12:08:53

java/mvn/clojars seem to have a poor runtime mechanism and a pretty good archive

mccraigmccraig12:08:04

i can't remember much about rubygems - ptsd probably

otfrom12:08:34

mccraigmccraig: the runtime mechanism is better than .dll hell at least

otfrom12:08:34

maven is just a good example of Jevons' Paradox applied to packaging. (with Apache:Maven :: USA:Global Warming)

mccraigmccraig12:08:46

@otfrom: with mvn ? it's the same as dll hell - you can have unresolvable transitive dependency clashes which aren't discovered until link or call time

otfrom12:08:14

nah, it is better, b/c you can always explicitly refer to the versions you want of the lib and pointonly at them

otfrom12:08:33

(at least compared to the old .dll hell where you just had unversioned libs in a single directory)

otfrom12:08:56

the probem is that every package depends on a tree of other packages and those trees often have conflicts

mccraigmccraig12:08:41

yes - which is a problem that node's runtime mechanism has a solution for

minimal12:08:53

“solution"

mccraigmccraig12:08:40

what's wrong with their closure-based solution @minimal ? the archive implementation is awful, for sure - but the runtime solution seems very sane ?

minimal12:08:49

Maybe i’m confusing the runtime vs archive and npm 2 vs 3

mccraigmccraig12:08:50

by runtime i'm meaning (for node) the way package implementations get wrapped in closures, so that you can have multiple versions of the same package happily co-existing

mccraigmccraig12:08:49

perhaps partly what java was aiming for with osgi, but that seems very heavy

minimal13:08:26

Yeh i get it. It solves the problem (presumable). but the way they store dupe packages in the archive is weird. not sure why don’t use a nix-like scheme for storing packages of the same version rather than duplicating

mccraigmccraig13:08:55

yeah - that would be an improvement

minimal13:08:05

The repo of curated packages is one way to nice things but has its own drawbacks

glenjamin13:08:44

what problems have you had with the node package registry mccraigmccraig ?

mccraigmccraig13:08:05

@glenjamin: just that recent mess where some packages were deleted and random other users could take them over

glenjamin13:08:27

they’ve changed policies on package deletion since then

mccraigmccraig13:08:04

in which case node gets a boost to it's archive rating in my head

glenjamin13:08:14

The lockfile that npm uses is a bit rubbish, but can be made to work - but isn’t enabled by default

glenjamin13:08:32

I see lots of people neglecting to use the lockfile (shrinkwrap), which is a bad idea

glenjamin13:08:02

and in other ecosystems people seem to set up caching proxies fairly often - but it’s not as widespread in node-land

mccraigmccraig13:08:28

are there things like an s3-archive impl for node packages ? i'm particularly fond of my s3-wagon

glenjamin13:08:09

i don’t know of an S3-based one, but pass-through caching proxies and private package hosting thingies exist

otfrom13:08:32

I'm gonna leave that typo

dominicm13:08:24

You can do node packaging with Mr.Anderson in Clojure.

mccraigmccraig13:08:40

mr.anderson rewrites your source doesn't it @dominicm ?

dominicm13:08:48

I think so.

otfrom14:08:37

ok, I've just fallen in love with org-attach.

otfrom14:08:08

hmm... doesn't look hopeful, but can always create links

dominicm14:08:49

But how do I use it with vim?

otfrom14:08:49

dominicm: I would have thought you do that by writing a lot of vimscript

otfrom14:08:02

should be a simple matter of coding as you have an example to follow. ;-)

dominicm14:08:06

Apparently it's a lot of Python.

otfrom14:08:22

Python is no longer an acceptible lisp. ;-)

otfrom14:08:46

that is a lot to copy. Sometimes org-mode feels as big as the rest of emacs

malcolmsparks14:08:52

are there any clojurians at skybet or did I dream it? I googled and @glenjamin appeared.

glenjamin14:08:15

I’m not working there anymore, but there are Clojurians

malcolmsparks14:08:29

am looking to invite to https://juxt.pro/XT16.html - do you have any contacts there I can pester?

glenjamin14:08:34

team of 4 or 5 doing ETL-type stuff via Kinesis and Lambda in Sheffield

malcolmsparks14:08:01

my very good friend and old co-founder Peter Morgan has just started working ther

malcolmsparks14:08:06

(in Sheffield)

thomas15:08:13

Thanks guys... it went really well. And now my family and I need to have an extremely hard think if going back to NL is what we want.

thomas15:08:37

To be honest it scares the !@# out of me, going back to NL, haven't lived in this country for 16 years. Just been a tourist occasionally.

otfrom15:08:23

thomas: I know your feels

seancorfield15:08:35

Yeah, that would be like me taking a job in the UK and moving back there (left in '99). Lots of pros but lots of cons too. Good luck with that decision @thomas