Morning

As I am out of contract in London at the end of August I won't be hosting ProCloDo anymore. I am open to suggestions about what we do with it. If anyone wants to take on organising it and maybe rebooting it (even looking at building something different?), I'm happy to talk to them off line (just DM me).

morning

mccraigmccraig: do you use dcos or plain old mesos?

Your message was sent

Morns

thx dominicm

(/◔ ◡ ◔)/

(the real reason I want to use erc is so I can do my multi-char unicode emojis)

😄

yasnippet is the best

ʕノ•ᴥ•ʔノ ︵ ┻━┻

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

@otfrom: yeah but what an earth are they supposed to be?

agile_geek: exactly what they look like (❁´◡`❁)

@otfrom: they look like squiggles to me

Hold on. I thought 🚽 was an emoji. And (❁´◡`❁) was a unicode emoticon?

As a complete aside I was reading a Women Who Code article on 'ageism against women in tech'. I don't think this is an issue only related to Women although I suspect (no evidence) that they suffer from it more. Anyone (apart from me) come across this

dominicm: ooh. There is a delightful distinction for me to hold on to. (❁´◡`❁) 😂

agile_geek: got the link?

@otfrom: to the article? I was reading it on my phone so give me a minute and I'll see if I can find it again

“For Women in Tech, Ageism is Getting Old” @WomenWhoCode https://medium.com/@WomenWhoCode/for-women-in-tech-ageism-is-getting-old-25d6b7425392

I did chuckle that the author thought being in your mid thirties is 'old'.

That makes me dead?

agile_geek: sounds a bit extra SV to me. Plenty of older coders in London

otfrom: SV?

On a more Clojure related note remembers this is a Clojure channel anyone used Specter? https://github.com/nathanmarz/specter

I've played with it. I've implemented my own similar thing. What do you want to know?

@dominicm: nothing specific just seeking an opinion. Looks interesting.

agile_geek: valley

@glenjamin: gotcha!

@agile_geek: Lenses (that's another name for what specter does), are pretty great for describing parts complex data structures. Sometimes a nesting of keywords is not good enough, and you need to take advantage of things like "every other element" Specter makes that pretty easy.

Yeah, I've seen other 'lens' implementations. Including Chris Ford's talk at Clojure eXchange 2014. Navigating to and updating parts of nested datastructures is certainly a comon use case in Clojure/script

agile_geek: Silicon Valley

Yeah, Chris Ford's library was very good and understandable. I think Specter's barrier is knowledge of the library. If you're doing it a lot, it's another interface to learn in the codebase. Similar trade off to schema/fnk. However, it can clean up your code a lot if you're doing plenty of data structure modification, so it's probably a worthwhile trade off.

otfrom: hmm, not sure. I've found out anecdotally that I've not been considered for the 'cool kid' roles cos I'm not 'cool' and certainly not a 'kid'! However, the real reason may just be that they've found out I'm rubbish! 👅

@dominicm: true but coding is littered with API's you need to learn. I find Clojure equally interesting and exasperating that people often 'roll their own' whereas in other languages they would seek to reuse an existing library.

@agile_geek: If you end up building lenses, then just use specter. Absolutely. However, whilst more verbose:

(clojure.walk/postwalk
   (fn [x]
     (if (number? x)
        (inc x)
        x))
    ...)

I'm obsessed with pulling in libraries. I pull in a lot quite gladly. I've not seen the conservative nature you mention, but that is experiences for you. I think ours differ greatly in many things.

Obsessed may be too strong a word. I am not opposed to it.

@dominicm @agile_geek didn’t use myself yet, but after I saw the improvements in speed with latests releases (caching of paths I think) I would use it for certain data-heavy processing parts just for the perf boost

That's another very good reason 🙂.

I agree with more globally understood statement and one of the pleasing aspects of Clojure is that there are some accepted ideomatic approaches to solving problems and I personally favour readability over most other aspects of code (such as succinctness or ultimate performance)

(and agree that I’d prefer idiomatic core clojure in any other case)

If you accept that most 'modern' code gets changed and that programmers spend 80% of their time reading and understanding already written code it makes sense to optimise for that use case.

As a contrast, code I wrote in 1990-1 is still running almost unchanged in production. This is because the problem it's solving is now solved by 'packaged' software and in fact in most companies configuration of that software is outsourced to a third party that provides services around it. The reason my code is still there is: 1. It runs on a slowly evolving platform (mainframe) 2. It's interfaces are fixed and core to the business 3. It's more expensive to outsource it and configure a 'package' to do the same than it is to continue running what's there Generally speaking, modern bespoke s/w evolves much faster because: 1. The market it serves changes or vanishes. 2. The platform it's using for a delivery vehicle to customers changes. 3. The business built around it is not a core 'bricks and mortar' operation but something whose very existence is predicated on the technology platform itself.

So endeth the lecture for today

@otfrom: atm plain old mesos, but am "considering" (aka: avoiding, but will have to do at some point) a move to dcos - the VIP thing will solve a problem i have, and the cassandra service looks worth the move

also, the mastodonc terraboot thing looks like a fine approach

mccraigmccraig: I'd be very happy to have you come in on that

currently trying to move it over to dc/os 1.8 with the new shiny things

ooo integrated marathon, chronos becomes metronome and a lot of VIP related stuff... cassandra, kafka services... no elasticsearch service though 😞

@agile_geek: sounds like someone is (or should) submitting a talk 🙂

@reborg: ? on what?

oh, there is - awesome - https://github.com/mesosphere/universe/tree/version-3.x/repo/packages/E/elasticsearch

@agile_geek: ok ok, I’m giving you the title as well 🙂 “The secrets of the well-rounded developer” Subtitle: “How to create software today that last forever"

i haven't been paying attention @otfrom - i hadn't realised what a load of DC/OS packages there were available

(cfp for euroclj closes today… now go)

@mccraigmccraig: @otfrom: Not a conversation for here but you guys need to explain to me what the differences and various pros/cons of Mesos vs Kubernettes are? I've watched lots of tlaks on both but I struggle to understand the paradigms until I try them or someone explains them one to one when I have the chance to ask for examples and ask questions.

reborg: can't see how it's a clj talk? 😀

I've been learning Kubernetes this week

it's kinda awesome.

kinda shit.

@agile_geek: it doesn’t need to be IMHO… I love to see keynote-like and historical talks at language conferences. It’s refreshing for the body & mind.

@agile_geek: i haven't used kubernetes, but based on its wikipedia page it looks awfully similar to mesos

I don't think it's a good fit for Clj conference. Feels more like a talk for a generic s/w conf or a management/agile b*llsh*t conf to me. 😉

@mccraigmccraig: not sure @otfrom has either but would be good to get one side of the picture anyway. Need to arrange a chat over a drink one night.

sounds good - when's the next london talk ?

It will be first Tuesday of Sept I guess? Not sure where in the country I will be though!

@xlevus: kinda awesome and kinda shit sounds like most systems I've ever designed/developed 😉

day0: This is going to be awesome day30: This is awesome day60: This is kinda cool day365: Yeah I made that day1800: oh god why did I do that.

Reaget Onyx Cassandra Kafka ElasticSearch http://Thi.ng Mesos Clojure Spark - ROCKET-MCS is my stack

What parts of thi-ng do you use?

and what is rocket-mcs @otfrom ?

Clojure Lambda Unrealengine Spark http://Thi.ng Elastisearch Redis F# Cassandra Kafka

CLUSTER-FCK :V

lol

mccraigmccraig: rocket-mcs is basically the MC stack

except I can't spell reagent

oh, duh, MC = MastodonC

we might be space flight Masters of Ceremony

huh - re-frame reagent cordova yada onyx clojure cassandra kafka gnatsd elasticsearch mesos

mccraigmccraig: that is pretty hard to get into an acronym

¯\(ツ)/¯

RRCYOCCKGEM

RROCCCKY GEM

you'd need lots of reverb on your mic speakers though

makes less sense that way around though, it's a partial order

it'd all be a bit CCCCOMBO BREAKER http://funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/38143/Combo#6d3cf0_77725

fair enough then. Though why let facts and order get in the way of a good acronym

my fave atm is the backonym I came up with b/c people were calling Witan (the product we are building for cities) WITAN

WITAN = Witan is the actual name

almost as good as TWAIN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPseOlTl7Dk

i think i have acronym blindness. probably from decades of refusing to ever use upper-case

lol

sorry LOL

everything started to go wrong when they introduced the 8th extended-ASCII bit

Everyone used that bit in their own way

When I were a lad in school I was taught acronyms should be punctuated f.w.i.w.

My stack is WEPP at the moment.

@agile_geek: but LAMP/WEPP/etc isn't an acronym, it's an initialism

An acronym is a word or name formed as an abbreviation from the initial components in a phrase or a word, usually individual letters (as in NATO or laser) and sometimes syllables (as in Benelux). Initialism: an abbreviation consisting of initial letters pronounced separately (e.g. BBC ).

Therefore an Initialism is a form of Acronym

BTW (another acronym/initialism) by WEPP I don't mean Web Enabled Placement Portal - I mean Word Excel PowerPoint! 😉

backronyms are my favourite acronyms

BACK Bacronyms Are Cool, K?

That's cool how slack thinks that http://Thi.ng is a URL and it actually is.

malcolmsparks: Karsten says Nigerian domains are the coolest domains

I think that is why they have so much money to give away there

I only have my phone, can someone do a whois ya.da for me :)

malcolmsparks: whois ya.da

No whois server is known for this kind of object.

but whois also fails for me, so inconclusive

Nobody in denmark thinks ya.da is worth registering? Perhaps it's available.

Er. Denmark is .dk

was just about to say that

Oh, maybe I'll just register the tld too...

Always wanted to form my own country

I want to submit one (or a few) talks to Clojure Exchange

should I still buy the ticket anyway (since I don't have it yet)?

or will I have to pay the full price if they don't get accepted?

@andrea.crotti: if you don't get accepted you will need a ticket obviously. It's up to you but if you bought one you could try what I did last year and sell it on for face value.

@andrea.crotti: HOWEVER, if you submit and get rejected you get a code for 25% off BUT it applies to ticket price at time of purchase IF you have the code when you purchase.

@andrea.crotti: HOWEVER, if you submit and get rejected you get a code for 25% off BUT it applies to ticket price at time of purchase IF you have the code when you purchase.

so if ticket price has gone up more than 25% in between submission and rejection you would be worse off anyway...if that makes sense?

Sorry for the double submission of message above..joys of trying to communicate over HTTP while on a train moving thru tunnels!