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#clojure-uk
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2016-07-01
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martintrojer07:07:48

That's a good gauge of doom. If DM gets the PM that it wants we are totally f-ed.

martintrojer07:07:11

Does May hate foreigners as much as DM?

agile_geek07:07:51

martintrojer: nice attempt at cheering me up but it's no good 😄 Oh irony, you're always there when I need you.

agile_geek07:07:24

Someone talk about cool stuff in Clojure quick!

agile_geek08:07:32

Seriously, I'm touting for really up beat stories/talks of cool stuff written in Clojure and difficult problems solved for Clojure eXchange.

agile_geek08:07:57

I know it's a way off yet but thinking caps on!

thomas08:07:57

@martintrojer: apparently we (ie. you and me) are bargaining chips for May…

martintrojer08:07:20

@thomas: that was brought up in the house of lords the other day. I.e. if current EU citizens in UK could be used as hostages to force a better deal with EU.

agile_geek08:07:11

WTF? Have I been transported to a police state since last week?

martintrojer08:07:27

apparently, so much for peace in Europe

martintrojer08:07:03

anyway, I have no confidence in PM May making life enjoyable for foreigners (like me and thomas) in the UK.

martintrojer08:07:24

With DM on her side, project hate can really begin.

otfrom08:07:27

martintrojer: I'm hearing that May is saying the same as that UKIP peer. Apparently it is only a "Shame" if said by someone not in gov't

otfrom08:07:59

and just think. May was for Remain (the main Remain campaign being pretty horrible and xenophobic too)

thomas08:07:50

May was only remain because she didn’t want to break with Cameron.

thomas08:07:23

that is what I think

martintrojer08:07:28

This is bleeker than a R.R. Martin novel.

thomas08:07:43

she was never really behind it, she didn’t really campaign after all

martintrojer08:07:12

A scheming Lannister lurking in the wings.

martintrojer08:07:11

Has May said anything about the wave of post-brexit hate crimes?

dominicm08:07:15

https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/clojure-uk/p1467289666000778 I'm a bit late to the party, but this was hilarious. My Dad voted out because he doesn't want Human Rights for other people. So I think the humour was doubled (again, in a sad kind of way)

martintrojer08:07:52

^^^ that video is epic

thomas08:07:56

yes… it is really good… and sums it up nicely as well.

thomas08:07:12

and it would be really funny if it wasn’t so close to the truth

thomas08:07:33

fascinating how a single person (Nigel Farage) can have some much influence on a country. and scary as well.

martintrojer08:07:32

is Farage going to spend the next 2+ years gloating in Brussels?

thomas09:07:53

while getting paid? yes… very likely

thomas09:07:03

after all, he never had a real job

thomas09:07:23

💶 💶 💶

otfrom09:07:09

Farage doesn't have that much influence. He is just the avatar for that impulse. 😕

thomas09:07:03

he did kinda force the referendum I guess… if UKip hadn’t been so vocal and making Cameron scared to loose votes, he wouldn’t have called it I think. so just standing at the side line and shouting loud enough has influence I suspose.

agile_geek09:07:42

Only in so far as he poked the Eurosceptics in the Conservative party

davesnowdon09:07:29

Please quick someone talk about clojure, life is depressing enough already ATM Maybe we should create a clojure-uk-therapy channel

davesnowdon09:07:54

It's been so long since I did any clojure I'm starting to miss all those ()s

agile_geek09:07:06

@davesnowdon: In case you're thinking of coming to ProCloDo this month, I am thinking of moving it to Wednesday's which would mean it was on 20th July.

davesnowdon09:07:02

@agile_geek: argh! Please no, then I'll have to explain to my wife why I can't look after the kids while she goes to zumba 😣

thomas09:07:22

So I have been playing with reagent… and I need to set focus after an action. any idea how to do that?

thomas09:07:30

@davesnowdon: take them with you?

davesnowdon09:07:05

@thomas: they are the other side of London, it would be quite a trek to collect them and come back into town for ProCloDo

agile_geek09:07:31

Might have to move it at least for July as I have another gig on Tuesday

davesnowdon09:07:51

@agile_geek: ok, If it's a one off I might survive it

agile_geek09:07:43

Also it's looking more likely that it may become ReProCloDo if I get a contract up north again (or in Scotland before they separate from the Union)

otfrom09:07:45

davesnowdon: our acron has been doing a fair bit of reagent lately and has been enjoying it

mccraigmccraig09:07:14

@thomas: a couple of ways come to mind - you can get the dom-node with (reagent/dom-node ref) in the :component-did-mount function of a type-3 component, or you can set an id on an element (use gensym to generate unique ids) and use the js/document.getElementById

thomas09:07:26

thank you @mccraigmccraig I’ll have a look into it later this afternoon, when it is Clojure O’Clock again

dominicm10:07:24

Something that doesn't get enough attention is https://github.com/weavejester/brutha Pros: - You control state management Cons: - You control state management

dominicm10:07:02

I've been using it to implement a version of Redux. Where, a component doesn't alter state via swap or anything else. You create a command (redux calls these actions) and they alter the state. I think it would be really cool to have this for debugging if nothing else, plus it completely decomplects the state structure from components. It's a lot like CQRS/ES, or that's how I think about it, that might be wrong.

davesnowdon10:07:45

@dominicm: how does that compare to Kris Jenkins' petrol?

otfrom10:07:50

we can always go back to talking about emacs configuration 😉

yogidevbear10:07:12

@agile_geek: You wanted some Clojure distractions to make you feel better. I watched this talk by David Nolen earlier. Really cool (although you may have seen it already) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTawgp3SKy8

otfrom10:07:56

I think I'm going to try to merge what I like between these 2 configs https://github.com/otfrom/otfrom-org-emacs & https://github.com/otfrom/home-lightsaber-kit

otfrom10:07:03

literate, but with use-package

agile_geek10:07:05

@yogidevbear: I think I've watched the beginning of that one but didn't see it all

otfrom10:07:14

and package pinning (mostly to melpa stable)

yogidevbear10:07:16

Well worth watching to the end

dominicm10:07:18

@davesnowdon: I think it's very similar. I want to split up commands (non-affecting of local state) and events (listened to for external state). But that may be a bad idea.

dominicm10:07:34

I'm going to scale it into a small example, so that should show how good/insufficient it is.

martintrojer10:07:22

UK should be a "startup nation"

martintrojer10:07:39

End Free movement, introduce austrailian-style point system

martintrojer10:07:55

Goodbye single market

martintrojer10:07:07

> Mr Gove outlines the future

davesnowdon10:07:02

@martintrojer: sounds more like "regressive nation"

martintrojer10:07:44

May has the same position I gather (regarding free movement)

minimal10:07:44

Startup nation with 1 in 10 chance of success?

martintrojer10:07:04

There is simply no way for a EU citizen to stay here without massive hassle.

dominicm10:07:52

@martintrojer: I think existing EU citizens will likely get a deal, no?

martintrojer10:07:17

@dominicm: offered citizenship or go into the work-permit / point system

xlevus10:07:36

I can't see how they'd get rid of free movement. without the eastern-europeans we'd have next to no builders to build all the shit London needs, let alone other cities

martintrojer10:07:57

Well, Mr Gove just made it a corner-stone of his platform.

dominicm10:07:49

I suppose it'll be negotiated by the EU and the UK. @martintrojer: You made some comments about point systems (australias I think). Do they really kick you out once they're "done" with you? Or is that a hypothetical point system moreso? I may be misremembering actually. Still you will know more than I do.

martintrojer10:07:32

well, for a point system to have any meaning, they have to deport people that have too few points

martintrojer10:07:38

even if they have kids in school etc

dominicm10:07:15

Is it not something that's just checked on entry, and is okay once you've arrived?

martintrojer10:07:31

points are calculated on your tax return

dominicm10:07:44

Oh, that's terrible! Do most people in point-based migration systems apply for citizenship instead?

dominicm10:07:58

Or some other form of permanent residency

thomas10:07:10

link to the plan.

thomas10:07:16

do check it out

xlevus10:07:25

Kinda considering moving back to Oz. but ugh, making new friends.

mccraigmccraig10:07:39

@thomas: must be a mistake, there is no <a> tag around the view the plan button !

dominicm10:07:57

yes, very understandable actually

xlevus10:07:56

@dominicm: with oz/nz's point based system, you get in on points, and then become eligible for permanent residency at X years, then eligibile for citizenship at Y years.

xlevus10:07:15

Pretty much the same as it is here for non-eu citizens. Except 'points' are just pounds.

xlevus10:07:35

But I don't think even a points based system is going to placate the anti-immigration crowd.

martintrojer10:07:00

In the Brexit world, can EU citizens keep their EU passport if they become British citizens

martintrojer10:07:10

i.e. dual citizenship

xlevus10:07:28

Only a few countries are anti-multiple-passports.

xlevus10:07:24

Austria being one.

otfrom10:07:35

UK has been multi-citizenship for a loooong time

otfrom10:07:53

and most countries that insist you only have one passport don't really have a way to enforce it

xlevus11:07:37

the UK even makes it easy to get 2nd passports from other countries

xlevus11:07:52

e.g. China will insist you give up your UK citizenship... so you do

xlevus11:07:59

then china gives you your chinese passport

xlevus11:07:18

and then you can tell the UK "I maed a masteak" and they'll give you your UK one back

agile_geek11:07:05

If you renounce your British citizenship in order to apply for citizenship of a country that only allows one citizenship and then fail to attain that citizenship within 6 months you get your British citizenship back automatically. Once a fully fledged citizen it's hard to get rid of the damn thing!

otfrom11:07:42

sometimes they don't even ask for proof of renouncement, they just ask you to do it

otfrom11:07:03

(US does this and doesn't really recognise dual nationality, but doesn't enforce it)

minimal11:07:28

Do you have to pay taxes on your income though?

xlevus11:07:24

the US are jerks like that

xlevus11:07:35

but there are recoprical agreements, but you still have to file taxes and crap

dominicm11:07:55

US tax is deducted from tax you paid in the country you're in

xlevus11:07:07

heh, if my wife was pregnant, and had the baby in the US. The baby would be a citizen of the US, UK, NZ, and Au.

thomas13:07:46

@xlevus: you could start your own union in that case

otfrom13:07:30

I'm sure border control would love it if you asked them to "pick a card"

otfrom13:07:36

or you could pretend to be Jason Bourne

seancorfield17:07:54

Re: taxes — when I started working in the US, I was taxed in the US (as expected) and then Inland Revenue sent me a tax assessment for the same wages. I just called them up and said "Hi, I’m already being taxed in the US on this salary" and they said "Oh, OK, just ignore our tax assessment — as long as you’re paying taxes somewhere, we’re happy"… and that was it. I was shocked. I expected a long drawn out argument and to have to produce a lot of paperwork. They just took me at my word!

thomas18:07:34

@seancorfield: you have just given me an idea… now what was the number of HMRC again?