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@martintrojer: sorry to hear about your incident over the weekend… it hasn’t happened to me yet… but I am sure it will at some point over the next few weeks
@thomas the question is do we move out of the UK now or later? The smart move would be to sell the house now (and rent), there is no doubt the housing market bubble will pop.
Before you start running, this makes for an interesting read: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1200279093330132&id=137432829614769
And the referendum is not distinctly related to Article 50 (which is the legal matter of a member state deciding to leave the EU)
I have no idea how they can spin 'not technically leaving the EU' to the people who voted Leave. Sounds like a constitutional crisis to me.
I agree, there will be lots of outcry from the people that voted leave (similar to the current outcry from the remain camp)
this assuming that the next PM will interpret the referendum result as a people agreeing to stayin in the EU but re-negotiate the terms.
I'm no expert, nor would I want to be in this particular instance, but the article is very interesting
Especially the parts where he discusses points 1 and 2 of article 50 in greater detail
I agree the details are interesting, but on a higher level, I have a very negative outlook for where the UK (well, Kingdom of England) is headed.
and isn’t that even a bigger problem. disenfranchising the people who have it difficult already even more? The people voted and the Etonian Pig …….. ignore them… again and again and again.
I'm actually getting more bothered now by the anti-migrant attitudes of major English politicians (pretty much everyone except Sadiq Khan, Jeremy Corbyn and Caroline Lucas). They are giving a lot of validity to some ugly feelings
@otfrom: Anna Soubry last night on question time is the only tory I've heard who wasn't apologetic or passive aggressive about migrants. rest of the govt, well thats another story.
Project fear ?!?!?!?!?! WTF: http://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2016/jun/27/project-fear-over-says-boris-johnson-video
If this is the next PM then god help us all, he is clearly unqualified and totally clueless
Having read his column, I mean, UK can leave the EU and keep all the free market/movement benefits?
@martintrojer: I thought we could do a Norway and follow all the rules? We'll probably be hit with additional penalties though I guess.
@dominicm: I think its politically impossible for UK to agree to Norwegian terms
Many reasons; It would mean free movement of EU citizens 'uncontrolled immigration' and much control still being in Brussels (UK have to abide to all rules set out to participate in the common market), only now UK has lost it's say in any of these rules.
@martintrojer: Ah, political career suicide for someone like Boris. I understand now.
the current situation is a loose-loose-loose for almost everyone (except currency traders)
UK being excluded from more things: http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/24/tusk-save-brexit-talk-for-dinner/
I think the deal will be worse than whatever is currently in force or in train while UK is still part of the EU and I think more and more rules that the UK won't like will be coming in while they delay on article 50
Speaking for myself, I will not stay in the UK under some kind of work-permit / point system.
well, not forced (as in the EU will start article 50) but it will be so horrible they won't have a choice by to trigger article 50
martintrojer: I've heard "talented" migrants will always be welcome in the UK. I'm going to learn to juggle or ride the unicycle.
talented migrant my foot, I still need to prove my worth every year on my tax return
if I get ill / want to take a year off. The police will knock on the door and deport my family (and take my children out of school)
(obviously I find the whole situation horrifying and am a big believer in the free movement of people)
"pls come here so we can use you for some years and then tell you to fuck off to where you came from away from your friends when you are no longer of use"
British citizenship for me and my family is totally off the table btw, never in a million years ever. A matter of principle.
those would be all the reasons why despite having UK citizenship I'm not feeling keen to stay
I value the benefits / freedoms my EU citizenship gives far more than what a British would
I've been waking up every morning thinking that something is deeply unreal or that I'm still having a bad dream
Another aspect totally missing from the Breixt campaign was solidarity and help people in need. Britain seems to be stuck in a 'look out for no 1." right now and totally obsessed on itself. Coming from Sweden, a social democratic society where sharing our wealth and good fortune is highly valued, I just don't feel at home with the mood here. The EU project, where it came from and what is trying to acheive is much closer to my core believes.
yeah, the EU could be a bit less neoliberal, but I feel the same way about the lack of social democratic feeling here
Being the 5/6 biggest economy in the world, how come little tiny Sweden does much more with the current Syrian refugee crisis?
Btw, Farage used Swedens generous refugee policies as an argument for UK to leave (since some of these people will become Swedes eventually and thus insta-move to the UK and destroy the NHS)
I agree with your conclusions, but the inward looking stuff I think is more a symptom than a cause
in summary, if UK replaces the single market / free movement with a point system, I am definitely uprooting my family. If we stay in that, and there are still cool jobs in London (for me and my wife) we'll probably stay.
quentin & glenjamin austerity policies mean that people look to experts and representatives to figure out what is wrong. When those experts and reps say the problem is migrants rather than gov't policy then the problem is w/the gov't and the experts
and speaking to a handful of my Swedish friends, I'd say 8/10 atleast (out of ~100k) would bounce
@otfrom: but people are “tired of experts” now, what they are looking is easy to understand solutions, even at the cost of accuracy (and hate )
but this kind of hate needs a fair bit of support system to keep it going, and that is what is really bothering me (and why I keep tweeting at various people asking for politicians to come out as against anti-migrant xenophobia)
we should forget any notion of a second referendum or no-trigger a50 tho. BoJo will push that button later this year
atm, I seem to be the "right kind of migrant". I find that, obviously, very comforting.
"we shall negotiate with them on the beaches. we shall negotiate with them in the fields"
dunno, May might pull something off. I wouldn't guarantee we are done w/weirdness yet.
I did like the suggestion that Scotland should think bigger than independence and consider conquest
lol, May is the "compromise candidate" as she just wants to scrap the ECHR http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/theresa-may-tories-general-election-stop-boris
I'm sure someone will really enjoy renegotiating the Good Friday agreements. It was pretty easy last time. I think they can still find Mo Mowlam's wig
thomas: normally I wouldn't do this, but you are saying "loose" - release an arrow, or make something slacker rather than "lose" - not to win
I think you should keep it though as it feels a bit like an attack, even if it doesn't fit with your earlier statements
Excellent conspiracy theory. Very Games of Thrones: http://qz.com/717182/a-brexit-conspiracy-theory-nails-the-no-win-situation-boris-johnson-now-finds-himself-in/
> "we shall negotiate with them on the beaches. we shall negotiate with them in the fields, we shall never surrender"
because even after negociating new agreements, a lot of work will still need to be done
it is true… and remember, the UK has very few trade negotiators… they might have to get few Poles to come and help them out 😁
thomas: when I studied English Lit at U of York, England I got a lot of "Oh. I didn't know they let you take that as a foreign language."
in that case BoJo has to make it clear very soon that he will press the button if he becomes PM. (or anyone else for that matter who wants the job for that matter)
this is a good start from Cameron on xenophobic abuse https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/27/sadiq-khan-muslim-council-britain-warning-of-post-brexit-racism