Clojurians Log v2
clojure-europe 2026-06-03
Good morning! 🌞
God morgen 🙂
Dia dhaoibh 🙂
Very interesting reading about your reMarkable / REPL adventures! I had seen your blog before, had no idea it was yours. love the handwritten aspect of it. Everthing feels calmer, less cramped.
morning!
good morning
finally upgrading my work laptop from an Intel Mac to an M5! And the RAM gets increased to 48 GB, which is a nice step up from 16.
Intel Macs are obsolete from the next Mac OS version and seriously gasping for life using the current version. I needed to upgrade anyway, but it’s kind of a dick move by Apple.
So much faster though
Yup
come on Simon. How can a small, feisty startup like Apple take care of customers over the long term?
oh, hang on
I think the US defense war budget is set to dwarf all but still 🤷🏼♂️
to play devil's advocate, they will provide security updates until late 2028 for macOS on intel. That's 8 years since they introduced M1. This is much longer than most brands offer support for Android phones and whatnot.
see above
that's a picture, but what do you mean by it exactly? please be explicit since it's hard for me to guess these things
oh, I mean that they could easily afford to keep both systems for ever but choose not to
also, their new OS probably sucks so you don't want to upgrade anyway
they have too much money to spend on "improving" their OS design
you're switching the subject now ... and to one that I wholeheartedly agree with you on 😉
lol
about the above: when people say "you can probably guess the answer" I'm always like: do they mean the answer according to majority consensus, or do they mean the other non-obvious answer that might be true for a to me unknown reason? so I end up questioning: what did they actually mean.. it's very annoying ;)
that picture is out of date anyway ... the market value (and you can decide whether that means anything or not) is closer to 4tn today. And nvidia is higher with an obsolescence cycle of months not years or decades 😢
I'm still happily using a 2013 iMac as my dev computer and just resurrected a 2009 MacBook Pro! Linux thwarts planned obsolescence!
@lee I was actually planning to build a Linux desktop for both development and gaming, but current hardware prices are just terrible (and keep getting worse).
My work machine is another story since it's not my own money 😋
If you find older gear like mine, you might want to try https://mxlinux.org/.
good morning!
good morning ☀️
hmmm ... it didn't get very weird last night, or maybe I have higher tolerance for feedback based fun than you ;-)
my words: delightful, impressive and heart-warming
Good morning.
morning
Morning!
Good morning
mogge
That brick hall. So cool
What about that castle tower 😮
Or church tower or whatever it is
Beautiful! Where is this?
Mechelen, Belgium. Conference center Lamot, it's an old brewery
Looks great.
You can actually climb on top of the tower, we did it last month. Really great views (and lots of wind)
some cool nerding about clocks and carillons along the way
⚙️clojure-spin
I've written out the problem enough ways that the code shrinking can begin. Just need to make sure I'm keeping the right moving parts configurable
Huh?
when i write code the first few times I tend to copy and paste a lot if things are the same (esp in notebooks where I'm doing different cuts through the same data). When I understand it better I try to factor some things out to make it easier to read and hopefully change in the future, or at least to understand. I'm in the shrinking phase atm having done a lot of copypasta (with edits). Now I just need to be careful I don't make the wrong thing rigid or too convoluted (which often will happen b/c I make something rigid). It would be called refactoring if I had more tests, but instead I'm just changing code and looking at the results in the repl as I go.
That looks amazing, nice find!
@plexus looks great! :) does Heart of Clojure -> HeartConf mean that it's intentionally more broad than clojure (which HoC already was), or will there be a lot of clojure stuff too?
Clojure will still be significantly represented, but yes the idea is to open it up more
And what dates should I jot down in my agenda? ;)
18-19 august 2027, probably with workshops on 17 and 20
it's a wed-thu again, again due to venue constraints...
that's great
hope to make it!
as you can see there's room to go multiple tracks, I'm not really sure yet what I'll do with that, but it could mean for instance one room one day is the Heart of Clojure track (= all clojure), or maybe one of the smaller rooms can have a scicloj or a clojure dialects track for a day (or a half day)
but maybe also one day an Elixir track for instance
sounds a bit like ClojureTRE which also had a lot of room for other languages
(but only one track)
some ideas of things I'd like to see • Dynamical Functional Programming Languages • Creative Coding, Live Coding • Dynamic, Introspectable, Malleable Systems • Programming language theory (PLT), Database Theory • Sociology of Tech and Open Source Communities • Community Organizing, Supporting Diversity • Distributed Social Media, DWeb, ActivityPub, ATproto • Tech labour organising, unionising
Maybe also "Open Source something"
oh you had that already
Open Source Everything! 😄
:)
or maybe babashkaconf 2027 can take place since you have a lot of room anyway :P
(omg no, what did I say)
Yes, certainly! Would love to get a lot of the clojure dialect people in one room (babashka/sci, dart, let-go, cljs, jank, etc)
Accidentally tricking yourself into running a conference again, @borkdude 😛?
bit of a gamble going more general, there's a risk that it's not clojure-y enough for the clojure people, and too clojure-y for the non-clojure people, but I think it'll work out
it takes a 3 year interval when you forget about last organizing a conference, sounds about right ;)
yup, exactly
still on track for a reverse fibonacci... 5 years, 3 years, 2, 1, 1
and then what 😛?
how about a session or more on resisting the robots?
that's where the Heart comes in
and FYI open source is going to die if they keep up their current suckage cos folks will simply not expose ideas for these machines to copy, not to mention the PR tsunami that many maintainers are fighting
[ see aphyr's comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48208685 cos I know @borkdude likes it all laid out - no slight ]
"a conference for human programmers" is a potential tagline, and like last time I'd love to feature some voices who can put what's happening into context. I think this is a great opportunity to be in the same room with others in this line of work and make sense of what's happening. And maybe/hopefully start organising. God knows what the world will even look like in a year...
I got Emile Torres on my list of potential people to contact, seems he's based in Europe at the moment. Together with Timnit Gebru he came up with the acronym TESCREAL
the bar will be very high for any talk that wants to touch this subject
@raymcdermott if you have a shortlist of interesting people, preferably based in Europe, I'd love to see it
sure - let's take this off thread.
Is there a (rough) date? Spring, Fall?
Venue looks stunning btw
I'm excited to see you working on Heart of Clojure! That venue looks fantastic, too! I'm in full support of trying to get all the dialect authors together as part of the overall experience there.
it's now called HeartConf :)
My brain just really wants to read "Heart of Clojure". 😆
Mine too! What prompted the name change?
Looks awesome! Blocking my calendar 😀
Beautiful venue, loved Heart of Clojure! Added to my calendar. ❤️ clojure The topics sound interesting, definitely the part about making sense of the industry.
It's always been very broad in terms of topics, but calling it heart of clojure means a lot of people that share the same interests are going to opt out cause they don't do clojure. I think it's also healthy to mingle with people from adjacent communities, it's not good to be too insular, so that's what we're going to try to do.
ClojuTRE was had Clojure in the team but always attracted other FP crowds as well which was reflected in the talks very much as well. People into Clojure might just put in the little extra effort if it's branded this way who would maybe not go otherwise? It works the other way too of course.
Yeah, it's a trade off
Good morning!
Good morning
That's pretty cool! What UI library are you using?
Finally got this working! An inspector feature for plain SSR hiccup. Click an element, jumps to it's source code location.
@pdekruif Why not use the #C06MAR553 channel for this? This is the channel we use here to announce new software projects :)
Apologies, I thought this would be the right place. (#clojure)
No need to apologize. It's fine to post it there but I think in #C06MAR553 more people see it because they are actually keeping an eye for new projects there
Should I post a link there (like I did here) or would that be rubbing in this stain?
I would just remove the post in #C03S1KBA2 and put it in #C06MAR553.
Thanks, I'll give that a try 🙏
Ok, should be fixed now, thanks for pointing this out @borkdude https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C06MAR553/p1780907682128219
Absolutely nothing (no deps) but plain hiccup / ring response. The defview macro is a simple wrapper for defn that I'm pretty sure I can drop as well. Styling is tailwindcss.
Nice!
Can it be combined with different UI libs? I like how this basically moves the browser inspector into the editor.
I haven't considered any ui libs yet, although I suspect it would work without changes with idiomorph. Which ui libs are you thinking of?
The ones in common use: replicant, reagent, UIX, etc.
Very cool!
How do you identify where the source comes from? Does defview add metadata or something?
originally it did, but turns out it's not needed. I've reverted back to plain defn. I am planning on doing a writeup and publishing this code.
I look forward to it!