Clojurians Log v2

Same here! Great talks

I fully agree!!!

Yes!

Time for a swim 😉?

Enough American crabs in there, shame he's a vegan

I'm in Dundee

Do we need to make a Scotland Clojurians?

Wdyt @maleghast?

That location is conveniently close to both railway stations

There's at least half a dozen of us now! Occasionally go through to Dundee to attend some of the maker events (though I think they're now AI events).

6-8 is a good dojo

just need a place to me. Having a projector helps (for the show and tell)

this is too many steps, but not a bad start https://otfrom.wordpress.com/2012/07/04/how-to-run-a-london-clojure-dojo-in-20ish-easy-steps/

Yeah, so we've had some success with a more general (not Clojure specific) day long maker event in the codebase (in Edinburgh) event space has a projector.

I was also at an event in the Flour Mill in dundee and that was ok

I would love to attend a Scotland CljDojo - my schedule is so crazy I would expect that I would only make some events so I would want to be upfront about that if you were trying to work out numbers - the keen is high the pragmatic voice is worried it might never be on a day I can make...

My advice, don’t be too ambitious. Get together for a meal. take it from there.

That's why I like dojos. They are really easy. (Tho meals are good too, but I find I socialise better at a dojo because I know what to talk about)

Dojos don't need food or beer

And don't need a projector either, but it makes show and tell easier

I agree with all of that for sure - the beauty of a Dojo is that it's a focused event, so no one - even the organiser(s) - don't need to think about anything other than code / programming, which is very freeing.

Dojos work with just two people, but it is more lighter pair programming then (and the way I do dojos is more like a number of smallish mobs)

Naive question. What is a dojo?

Getting together with 2-30 people to code on some puzzle or area of interest together for around 50-80 minutes, followed by a show and tell of what the teams did

Could be a Roman numeral calculator, or making pictures with quil, or a game, or music with overtone, or data crunching with clay or clerk

Or whatever

Just need one attendee with a laptop per team

> "Could be a Roman numeral calculator..." twitch twitch I am having flashbacks! 🤣

Everyone should write at least one line of code

@otfrom - Did it EVER get picked..?

A few times

🤯

It is really there to avoid the tyranny of the blank page

I should really do it myself sometime, just for the intellectual exercise / discipline of it all...

https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/CBJ5CGE0G/p1778501617052789?thread_ts=1778493471.085639&cid=CBJ5CGE0G That's why it gets picked occasionally. That and the imp of the perverse over taking some attendees

We did that in London for months until someone volunteered to do a talk by complaining we hadn't organised any talks

(complaining is the number one way people became organisers)

Does that answer your question @andersmurphy?

And wdyt?

Yes, it does!

Thanks

But obviously people should do what they want. I'm pretty relaxed (and burned out, but wanting to do something)

Yeah, sounds fun and seems like a good way to have some structure.

That was a common theme at clojuredays, a lot of people burned out, but meetups and conferences recharging them somewhat. Maybe it was just the nice weather. 😅

heh, I burned myself out organising dojos/talks/conferences 😜

Cute little https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/8ae9e4f95e2fbbd4ee4ee3c627088c45ab44fa68/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L7811-L7821 :)

concats!

Mine already found out how to turn the music off and on. Her next task seems to be to break into my Mac. Sadly, her paw does not qualify as my fingerprint and my pw is not a sequence of spaces.

openclaw cat edition

similar amounts of chaos expected

The analogy to give openclaw access to your ssh keys would be to give your cats access to your keyboard when logged in as root in a terminal

beauties ❤️

I'm not far from you, 11 minute train ride. Count me in.

Cool @fana - where are you living if I may ask?

Hilversum

cc @joost-diepenmaat and @thierry572 @thierry572 is Patrick also here on Slack?

Yes he is @pdekruif

Hi all, I'm here! New to slack though.

@fana perhaps your partner Tad Lispy also wants to come? that would make 6 already

Yes he does.

also on Slack perhaps?

Not yet but i will encourage him to join.

dang.... Amersfoort is the place to be! And there was also someone from Apeldoorn I think.

@thierry572 I think you mentioned that Marten(?) is also from Amersfoort?

No don;t think so? He is dutch tho

I met Erwin Rooijakkers and he is located in Amsterdam. Perhaps he might be interested too.

All cities staring with an A.... that can be a thing as well of course.

(except for Hilversum... so that doesn't quite work doh)

I'm in utrecht so I'd be down to join as well.

If not a meetup then a dinner like they do in other places 😛

Oslo set a good example there

I work in Utrech at the moment.... and could meet up for lunch/dinner as well. Even Amersfoort would work for me. (Direct train to 🧀 )

Sounds like all we need is a date and a place? I would be interested in sharing my adventures around SSR web development. But I'm always good for just coffee and chat too 😅

Sounds like we have a talk. You did mention some kind of place if I recall correctly?

Ive informed and it's quite full, some mondays are still available at a very affordable rate (15€ pp, incl coffee). It's a bit farther from the centre (Hoogland) but could be an option. I've looked at some options nearer to the train station, but more expensive. Best option might be someone's employer in Amersfoort that is willing to host for practically free maybe? (Anyone? @thierry572 perhaps 😅?).

yeah a company that would host would be best and in the spirit of the Dutch Clojure Meetup

(https://www.meetup.com/nl-nl/the-dutch-clojure-meetup/)

BrightIn is a company in Utrecht that would maybe wanna host. Haven't spoken to them in a while

I could reach out to some local businesses where I know some people - some in software development actually (non Clojure). I vaguely remember BrightIn actually did/does Clojure development?

yep, they list it on their website

Regarding what to ask for; would a weekday 18:00 - 22:00 be reasonable? We could plan somewhere end of this month or somewhere next month, that would still be well enough before summer vacation?

that sounds good to me

usually clojure meetup has been from 19:00 to 22:00 I think

no sorry 18:00 but it was with pizza https://www.meetup.com/nl-nl/the-dutch-clojure-meetup/events/310847200/?eventOrigin=group_past_events which may be a bit too much to ask for with a company that hardly has any ties to clojure? ;)

I'm fine to do it at 19:00 without the pizza if that's easier for everybody

let's also ping @skuro who has a lot of experience here

I had a few times the meetup hosted by Infi https://infi.nl/

they might not do much clojure during their billable hours, but they go as far as sporting the DCD shirt on their main page 😄

let me ping them and see if there's still interest

looks at infi and wonders if they are a good match for me....

Infi says yes! > Although we / I do not use Clojure anymore, we certainly can host an event. > Do you have any days / or dates in mind? do we have a date in mind?

wow!

yeah they have been traditionally awesome 🙂

@skuro what's your traditional meetup schedule?

second Wed of the month, starting at 6pm (let's assume pizzas are going to be included for now)

we can ask nubank for the pizza funding now

Assuming second Wed, May, July Aug Sep all good so far. June I'm booked. But go ahead anyway, there's always one who can't make it.

So, this thread starts with Amersfoort and we end up in Utrecht? 🤔

sorry, I read Utrecht in the thread and went for it

Just observing, nothing else 😜

we could shoot for Amersfoort as well, but I don't have any connections to the corposphere here

@thierry572 I guess Thorax doesn't have an office where we could meet I guess? It might be the only company using Clojure in Amersfoort at the moment :)

Well we do have an office 🙂 I think it's empty most of the time, it's near station Schothorst

Sounds like a great option, @thierry572. Do you think we'd be welcome? If not, I've managed to get a free option at De Nieuwe Stad (the old Prodent factory), but that has room for eight at most and no beamer (I can bring an old clunky one though). Also kudos to infi for being so promptly welcoming.

So, just to recap, are we now thinking of organizing two in person meetup, one in Utrecht and one in Amersfoort?

At our office probably possible, I have the keys and the alarmcode. Just need to ask if it's okay, could do next monday. It's at walking distance from station Schothorst.

But let's try Bluem first 😉

Alright, we have a date: 26th of May (next Tuesday). We have a total room for nine. time: 19:00, walk-in from 18:30 (no pizza, sorry). Ends between 22:00 and 23:00 @skuro would it be possible for you to register an event on meetup?

sure thing!

https://www.meetup.com/the-dutch-clojure-meetup/events/314891138/?slug=the-dutch-clojure-meetup&eventId=312101213&isFirstPublish=true

I've added a limit to 10 people (I'm not sure I'll be able to join)

we also already have a talk by @pdekruif lined up, we could put it on the site as well

@pdekruif send me DM with title / abstract and I'll publish

after that I guess we could improvise lightning talks if other people have stuff to share. it'll be a fun night I'm sure!

that's why I left the "usual" list of ideas from the stock meetup description when we have no agenda, the plan is indeed to fill up time with interesting stuff

My partner and I won't be able to join this Tuesday. Have fun:)

hopefully next time @fana!

I'm happy to join any weekday evening besides Tuesdays.

Summary of the thread so far: hey, there's Clojure people in Amersfoort, we could do a meetup. Hmm, but is there a company willing to host us? Dunno. Utrecht's kinda close. Oh yeah brightin and infi (and that other health data company I can't remember the name of that did clojureCLR). But maybe we can get together in 033 after all? another one in Utrecht would be totally awesome of course too. 2 live meetups better than 1?

Mediquest I think they are called.

Good news, everyone! Bluem is happy to host us. They are a digital payments company on walking distance from Amersfoort Centraal.

is there any parens at Bluem by chance?

Mostly Python, don't think they are aware of the goodness of Clojure (yet). Maybe we can change that 😅

Honestly, if you are flying West only as far as the East Coast the 'lag is not so bad. The key is to NOT sleep on the plane, if your departure time + flight duration would not have you going to bed in your own TZ and then go to bed as soon as you can on arrival, imho. The thing you need to account for in terms of looking after yourself is the homeward journey...

recovering from jetlag takes about 1 day per hour time difference, so either you go a week early (which I strongly prefer), or you're going to make the best of it... if you can start adjusting at home a bit already that helps. Not always easy. Once there you can continue trying to shift gradually by going to bed early the first days, just wait at least until the sun is down. In terms of adjusting, the best things I've found are to be outside at the start and end of the day, especially just walking around. You get the sunlight that helps adjust your clock, and you get the kind of non-stressful tiredness that ensures a good night sleep. Try to eat at regular meal times. Avoid napping during the day. The first day or two you might get short nights and be pretty tired, that's fine, that means when you do go to bed at 8/9/10pm you'll be out like a brick. IMO the lag can be easier flying out, but at least for me it can be pretty bad in either direction.

next time I could try to go to bed earlier but the night owl in me just doesn't want to go to bed before midnight no matter the timezone :P

but it does seem like I could improve on the lag by 2 or even 3 hours by doing so

does any one of you go to a gym during such trips?

(I usually don't but it's a compelling idea)

Yeah depends on my general state and available facilities at that time. For me night 3 is actually often the hardest. The first two nights I'm so fatigued from travel and irregular sleep patterns that as long as I manage to stay awake until it's an acceptable bed time, I can roughly get a decent night's sleep. Once that travel fatigue has worn off, the jet lag starts hitting me. That's usually a good time to do some exercise.

I haven’t flown since 2018, but I used to just take melatonin to combat the jetlag. It helps with the weird state that the body is in where you won’t sleep even though you’ve been up for 18 hours (the cycle mismatch).

I saw a sleep scientist explain the issue once at a conference. Basically, melatonin is the cyclical hormone that you lack when it’s night time in the place you travelled to. It won’t do much if you’re not exhausted though, so you need to have been up for like 18+ hours.

I've been taking prescription melatonin for years due my inability to fall asleep early but I quit years ago. Instead I reduced caffeine intake and try to maintain a healthy getting out of bed time

and walking outside in the morning

but yeah it might help on the flight back

I used to do a huge amount of transatlantic flying. I used to sleep on planes as much as possible and, when flying west, just stay up to the normal bedtime at the destination. Flying east is always much harder because you lose time.

I used to do day trips to LA from London for business at one point.

Sleeping on planes gets easier, the more you fly. I'm out of practice now. But just the sound of a jet engine used to send me to sleep immediately.

I remember someone buying some kind of strong antihistamine that makes you sleepy as a sleep aid on the way back

only over the counter in the US, prescription in EU

probably benadryl or so

@tom791

shifting your eating schedule early is supposed to help your body adjust faster to the timezone shift as well. I’ve tried this the last few times I traveled and I think it did help me.

Hi! I wrote about hacking jet-lag (in Czech) here: https://www.lifehacky.cz/jet-lag-ci-ne-jet-tot-otazka/ Spoiler: I even asked prof. Steven Lockley who prepares sleep schedules for NASA astronauts to help me with my critical mission… our family vacation in Japan :) PS: The article was written for the Czech edition of Wired magazine, and I am gonna to publish (hand-crafted) translation on my English blog too someday soon. You can try quick AI translation I guess now if you are interested.

Generally, in my experience, you have to be very disciplined in sticking with all these suggestions and changes to minimize jet-lag. You can’t just choose some of them that you like and omit others, it will not enough:) Circadian rhythm is very strong beast.

Yeah, part of how I got to a point where I just stopped getting jetlag was just flying across timezones a lot. Nearly all my US trips in the early '90s involved flying every day for 2-3 weeks, back and forth across the country, in addition to back and forth across the Atlantic 🙂 I did that for about ten years. One of my last crazy trips was SFO -> LHR then LHR -> DFW the next day then DFW -> HNL -> KOA the next day, then ten days later KOA -> HNL -> DFW -> LHR then LHR -> SFO the next day (because the Hawai'i trip was booked before I moved to the California Bay Area!) 😄

last time wasn't that bad tbh, I was just too excited and I didn't get sick like after STL 23 (covid)