Clojurians Log v2

I get the sense of what you're saying, but I think over the years I've developed my understanding of UX a bit. Now I believe that you often need multiple different ways to do the same thing. Many users don't really attempt to understand a UI (however logical and well thought out it may be), they just look in the single place where they expect some specific functionality to be and immediately give up if isn't there... so while their suggestion may be a stupid choice for 80% of users, it might be the only logical option for the remaining 20%.

the issue is that this of course clutters up the UI, so you need to be careful when applying this approach. The other approach is to ignore their wishes and nudge them towards the other solution inside the UI. I also do this a lot :P

😄

I was thinking about a function interface, but I've recently also been annoyed with our UX'er for not accepting something that I think is just the best suggestion.

There are a lot of things in our UI, you know the page, @simongray 😄 and sometimes, things are not available - like, you're not allowed to click a specific button to do Y because somebody already did X. My take: let the buttons be disabled with a mouseover that explains why (because there can be many, sometimes complex reasons). Hers; we need to reserve mouseovers specifically for showing alt texts when the text is too long for the button (or whatever component it's in) to be shown directly on screen. I get that, buuuuut... Just hiding components without telling the user why is really confusing when there are so many components in play on this page.

Mouseovers are so discrete. If you don't want to look at them, don't!

I feel like she's designing in static, golden path pictures, and us developers are left thinking "but what when state no fit picture"

Yes, I recognise that a lot. I did a lot of co-creation with the UX'ers when I was still working at UFST. My main method was usually applying the edge cases to all of their designs and using that as the baseline of a critique and/or promotion of my own idea.

Anyway, regarding your specific issue: the mouse-over text (from title attribute, right? not image alt text) is basically only used by power users or blind people these days. I would never rely on that entirely. If you need to show a message to the user, it needs to be visibly present in the UI IMO.

e.g. a line of text below that row of UI elements

Another option is to use the JS form validation API, though not sure if it applies in this case. That is actually quite a nice option and very underutilised.

I have been in that position many times because I have a lot of strong opinions about software engineering, most of them hard earned. But... Leaning on that too much can make you a dismissive jerk. I try to remind myself that I might still be wrong, am I actually listening and absorbing their ideas, or dismissing them superficially? Even if I'm right, engaging with their pov might give new insights, edge cases, things I didn't think off. Even if I'm right, am I actually effectively verbalising my reasoning? This one can be really tricky but also really valuable. I can't blame them for not seeing my point if I'm not explaining the what and why. And that often really makes me dig to turn experience and intuition into something that makes sense, which means everyone learns something, and the other side gets something they can properly argue with.

@simongray I would hope our users are power users, but you never know. So many layers between devs and the production environment/users here. Help text below that row of UI elements is tough, everything is already packed tight!

@plexus for some reason, I cannot imagine you not effectively verbalising your reasoning 😄

It's worth thinking those things over, for sure. And I think actually that my counterpart here is having trouble deciphering my carefully wrought, but elaborate and possibly confusing text. I just hate it when we have verbal conversations and everything of note fizzles into thin air afterwards, which is why I try the text-first approach. Better schedule some face-to-face-time and ask participants to be patient while notes are being jotted down...

If it isn't obvious I AM SEETHING! Now I will cool off with some ice cream.

Anyway, when I actually challenge her and tell her that I don't feel like working on this project if my expertise and the work/research I've done isn't respected, then she becomes all meek and suddenly she doesn't need to decide everything and the work wasn't all done by someone else already. So it's all bravado. But why the fuck do I need to do that? This never happens on other projects with other people. It's so stupid.

Weird. Justified insecurity on her part?

"Justified" as in she's insecure because she knows she doesn't do her project work very well...

I'm so lucky not to have people like that in my work sphere at the moment 🙂 We've had a couple of poor colleagues, but they're gone now. One of them I couldn't fathom how they kept on after we complained about her going behind the team's back on a decision we made unanimously. But they rarely fire people here, as you know.

not sure why she does it, but it's happened a few times now over the years so I immediately recognise the pattern now.

Now that you know it happens, I guess you can prepare mentally a bit more

Bring ice cream in advance

yes, but it is still infuriating 😛

I can imagine

It must be especially demotivating since you don't really have anybody else to appraise your work, right? I mean, except for occasional end users

Not in this case, but in the other projects I've had some great feedback and a less toxic process too. But they also let me do my job 🤷‍♂️

I love that feeling. It's like an extended flow state and work doesn't feel like work anymore

Nah Get some legal stimulants and get cracking!

I would absolutely love to work on it from getting up in the morning and until sleepytime, it's been great

Everything else has been in the way 😛

And this particular work task... Does she have a name? ❤️

hehe

It's Irmabonen and Delvurderinger, right-hand-side and central element of the Opgaveløsning (now Ejendomsdata) page. 🙂 Specifically, migrating them to TypeScript. I'm not doing the TypeScript, I'm figuring out how to assemble all the right data in the backend. There's a lot