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#clojure-europe
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2023-03-03
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otfrom08:03:56

Morning

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otfrom08:03:29

thx @U04R4718WAJ I needed that

genRaiy08:03:30

Good morning (grey today so this is from yesterday)

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reefersleep09:03:05

Good morning!

reefersleep09:03:15

On my second coffee already.

Mario Trost09:03:42

Good morning and just finished my third and final coffee of the day

simongray09:03:55

About to get my fourth...

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Mario Trost09:03:16

Four is usually my upper limit, after that sleep degrades sharply

simongray09:03:09

I just don't drink any after lunch or if I'm particularly jittery.

simongray09:03:25

No set limit for me :man-shrugging:

simongray10:03:03

I don't understand how people who drink coffee in the afternoon are able to sustain a normal life

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borkdude10:03:03

I once heard that the coffee tradition in some scandinavian countries stem from people trying to bend the habits of the people from alcohol to caffeine as a "healthier" alternative drug

borkdude10:03:39

not sure if that was pure tourism or if there is some truth in there. alcohol surely is way more expensive in those countries

borkdude10:03:33

> I don't understand how people who drink coffee in the afternoon coffee has a half life of about 6 hours. even if you drink multiple coffees before lunch, it could affect sleep, but it varies a lot between individuals how much they are affected

borkdude10:03:20

my parents drink coffee at 8 pm and I was raised that way, which seriously fucked with my biorythm, I always had sleeping problems until in my 30s when I slowly decreased the amount of caffeine I was consuming

simongray10:03:46

> I once heard that the coffee tradition in some scandinavian countries stem from people trying to bend the habits of the people from alcohol to caffeine as a “healthier” alternative drug we never had a strong temperance movement in Denmark, though, and alcohol isn’t that expensive or hard to come by here, yet we drink lots of coffee like the rest of the Nordic countries 🤷

simongray10:03:32

> my parents drink coffee at 8 pm and I was raised that way, which seriously fucked with my biorythm, I always had sleeping problems until in my 30s when I slowly decreased the amount of caffeine I was consuming yes, I had a similar issue and experimented with different approaches. I remember the first time I heard about “evening coffee” as a thing people do and it just made zero sense to me.

simongray10:03:04

I guess some people aren’t affected by caffeine?

genRaiy10:03:15

No coffee after 2pm for me

simongray10:03:23

1 pm here 🙂

borkdude10:03:38

my mother certainly is affected, she always has sleeping problems, but she doesn't want to know it might be the coffee at night

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genRaiy10:03:44

I don't know who wins 🙂

borkdude10:03:33

my father doesn't seem to be affected by it

simongray10:03:32

must be nice

Mario Trost10:03:49

No more than 4 coffees, no coffee after 2pm for me. How does your sleep degrade if you drink too much/late? I usually fall asleep just fine but wake up at 2am and stay awake

Mario Trost10:03:24

My father can't sleep longer than 4am, my mother isn't affected, both drink coffee after dinner 🤷

borkdude10:03:00

My problem was usually falling asleep and then getting out of bed on time. I've had times in high school that I didn't make it to school before noon due to this problem

borkdude10:03:17

And because I couldn't sleep, I smoked out of the bed room window. I didn't know nicotine was also a stimulant. Those were the days.

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metal 4
genRaiy10:03:14

ah yes, those were the best days 🙂

genRaiy10:03:43

eventually self-preservation kicks in and ruins the fun

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thomas10:03:22

I only drink green tea... and not after 1700.

metal 2
simongray10:03:56

What’s significant about the year 1700 and how old are you even???

thomas10:03:33

I am about 650 years old.

thomas10:03:55

at least that is what it feels like for sure.

reefersleep11:03:14

“Aftenskaffe” (literally “Evening coffee”) for me is synonymous with “Let’s have some slow hygge by sitting down, having a snack (probably cake) and chat for a bit. Oh, some people drink coffee when this happens, it’s up to you”

reefersleep11:03:29

I don’t think we ever had coffee at our aftenskaffe at home

thomas12:03:27

My colleagues are NOT addicted to caffeine

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thomas13:03:37

and I just finished my third tea of th day.

agile_geek09:03:05

Bore da welsh_flag . I usually limit myself to two coffees in the morning but I'm already at two and I feel the need, the need for more caffeine! It's been that kind of week!

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mdiin10:03:59

Seeing as #clojure-denmark does not have a huge audience, I’m going to link to my post here as well to catch any in the Aarhus area of Denmark that might not have seen that the aarhus-clj meetup has rebooted: https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C077SD30R/p1677839352076859

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mdiin10:03:27

And a fine morning it is!

simongray10:03:06

what’s even the point of having both package.json and package-lock.json if you’re meant to commit the package-lock.json file anyway?

borkdude10:03:51

the point is that in package.json you can define version ranges and package-lock has the locked versions, I think?

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borkdude10:03:14

but yes, it could be argued that npm install should lock the version

simongray10:03:24

yeah, but if the package-lock.json is the canonical reference anyway, the package.json is useless

borkdude10:03:38

I think some other languages have this too, e.g. rust has also cargo.lock I think

borkdude10:03:58

neil add dep (#C03KCV7TM6F) does lock the version in deps.edn (because there is no other way, lol)

simongray10:03:17

this is the way

simongray10:03:18

I was just wondering whether it the split has any practical practical purposes if the package-lock.json is the canonical one anyway. It just seems like at some point they figured out that fixed versions are the way to go and hacked NPM a bit to make it work.

borkdude10:03:42

it's maybe a solution to a bad design decision they made earlier, which is often the case with npm

simongray10:03:02

seems likely

borkdude11:03:03

there was an effort called cljsjs who published npm deps to maven, it worked quite well, but things were always behind

borkdude11:03:29

also a problem it solved was packaging extern files, which is no longer needed

borkdude11:03:44

I guess mirroring npm deps on maven can still be valuable

pavlosmelissinos12:03:37

I'm not sure how people actually use them but from the few examples I've seen, package.json is for humans (you just specify direct dependencies) and package-lock,json is so that tools can create 100% reproducible environments (i.e. it includes pinned versions of all transitive dependencies) That's how poetry (python) approaches it at least.

pavlosmelissinos12:03:31

Languages other than Clojure allow you to specify version ranges as your dependencies, so assuming I create a project on machine A, I'm not guaranteed to get that exact environment if I try to recreate it a few weeks later on machine B, unless I have the exact library versions of the entire dependency tree A lock file like that though https://github.com/PavlosMelissinos/enet-keras/blob/master/poetry.lock, so you need an https://github.com/PavlosMelissinos/enet-keras/blob/master/pyproject.toml for that. (the examples in the links are from an old repo of mine) Poetry has pyproject.toml vs poetry.lock, node/js has package.json vs package-lock.json, etc Clojure doesn't have that problem because it doesn't support version ranges in deps.edn

Mario Giampietri17:03:06

Originally there was only package.json. There was a period (2015/2016 or so) when it was almost an heresy dispute that it was a good approach, even if in reality it was a massacre keeping up with libraries breaking each other. But reality prevailed, yarn came out providing a lock file, so also natively the same concept was introduced... optionally, coz The True Paladins Of SemVer weren't supposed to lock their versions (for minor and patches which in theory shouldn't break)! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: So, the real reason for having 2 files is historical heritage 🙂

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dharrigan11:03:16

I'm on my third coffee

metal 10
gotta_go_fast 2
thomas15:03:45

I'm on my second beer...

metal 10
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dharrigan15:03:54

Beer o'Clock 🙂

thomas15:03:42

and we even start at 4 on both Thursday and Fridays... and it is free. Very dangerous.

borkdude16:03:17

@U052852ES What company is this? ;)

thomas16:03:25

Varias, but we are in a shared workspace called Microlabs here in rdam and they provide the beer.

metal 6
genRaiy20:03:49

Wine at 9 🍷

thomas10:03:23

Lots of companies do Friday afternoon drinks.