Fork me on GitHub
#clojure-europe
<
2023-02-23
>
dharrigan07:02:17

Good Morning!

slipset08:02:59

Morning

❤️ 12
simongray08:02:04

What are those white, tall things in the background? 😮

slipset08:02:17

I believe they’re called mountains. Like Himmelbjerget, but for real.

simongray08:02:59

The legends were true!

mccraigmccraig18:02:54

one plank or two ?

slipset18:02:44

We’re all on two planks, but I have a free heel.

mccraigmccraig18:02:34

i just got back from introducing my kids to one-plank snow sliding... best holiday ever they said

slipset18:02:16

Jepp, telemark. It’s so great when the kids are happy. Only problem my kids are having with this stay is that it’s over. But I’ve promised a return next year :)

mccraigmccraig18:02:13

i also made that promise 🙂

mccraigmccraig18:02:01

telemark looks like it's really good for working your quads

slipset18:02:15

Yeah, it’s a bit more tiring than alpine. But I switch it up with some alpine turns every once in a while. Also, skiing with the kids isn’t all that hard

mccraigmccraig18:02:11

lol, yeah, these last few days were the least tiring boarding days i've ever had... but i know in just a couple of years i'll be a wreck trying to keep up with them

😂 4
reefersleep08:02:44

Good morning 🙂

simongray08:02:37

We just bought a cargo bike… for the price of a small car! It’s the most expensive thing—aside from housing—that I’ve ever bought.

🚲 10
reefersleep08:02:16

My girlfriend is very interested in getting one. I like the idea, but worry about it getting stolen. My brother had his stolen 😞

simongray09:02:08

insurance, alarms, lock, possibly a tracker

javahippie09:02:31

We are looking at one, too. I’m trying to lease it as a company-bike, it’s possible in Germany to treat it similar to a company car

schaueho10:02:17

For expensive bikes, the only thing that helps is insurance.

thomas10:02:38

Install an alarm like James Bond has in For Your Eye Only 💥

simongray10:02:34

@U04V15CAJ picking it up later today, but it is a Winther Cargoo (Danish brand) with some fancy engine with automatic transmission + child and baby seats.

simongray10:02:24

I was also considering a Christiania bike which was slightly cheaper, but it couldn't fit a family of 4 which this one can

simongray10:02:57

But I quite like the simple wooden box on the Christiana bikes, easier to customise

borkdude10:02:14

Seems the price is close to my Macbook 2019 i9 with 32GB memory ;)

😮 8
borkdude10:02:45

Oh, the electric transmission makes it more expensive ;)

💸 2
simongray10:02:00

The Dutch brand Baboo is also quite popular these days.

otfrom10:02:01

I've been looking at Urban Arrow https://urbanarrow.com/ and the Tern GSD https://www.ternbicycles.com/uk/bikes/472/gsd I think I slightly prefer the long tail, but I'm not carrying children just cargo and possibly another adult

borkdude10:02:17

For comparison, my 2019 laptop was a little over 4k, but I think the bike + electric transmission starts at about 5k right

borkdude10:02:31

Urban Arrow is also Dutch. In Dutch cities you see a lot of these bikes, especially families with kids

simongray10:02:59

Altogether it is 49K DKK which Google tells me is 6500 €

💸 2
simongray10:02:01

That is with every customisation + playing super high Danish VAT, of course. A lotta money.

borkdude10:02:56

But in terms of a car it's relatively normal I guess. And what would you do with a car in a city, bikes are way more useful :)

simongray10:02:16

yeah, especially for where we moved to now, where we’re quite close to a bunch of nature, e.g. forest, where cars cannot even go

simongray10:02:36

+ I don’t have a drivers licence and I still don’t plan on ever getting one…

simongray10:02:00

@U0525KG62 yeah, the bike should fit your needs. If I didn’t have a 2-year old + a baby on the way, I would have gone with a simple Christiania bike instead.

👍 2
👶 2
simongray10:02:39

But we needed something that could fit 2 small children + my wife and that was the only option left :)

borkdude10:02:29

@U4P4NREBY your wife can't ride a bike herself?

simongray10:02:05

she can, but it’s more fun when the whole family fits into one bike 😁

😆 6
simongray10:02:54

but seriously, being able to fit an adult in addition to two small children is a pretty good feature. Pretty useful for when we have a visiting grandparent or someone else who might not have bike.

borkdude10:02:23

I also noticed one of these in my city: https://carver.earth/ I guess it's a cross-over between a car and motorcycle, so you can park almost anywhere and you can sit warm and cozy when it's freezing.

otfrom10:02:55

I'd get me and my wife on the Tern GSD. They do running boards for the back. I'm wondering about a Reise and Muller Mixte, but I'm not sure about having someone on the back

borkdude10:02:01

Oh TIL, the carver only goes 45 km/h and you can use it on bikelanes, so it's not even a motorcycle-ish

simongray10:02:43

@U04V15CAJ I’ve noticed some of those hybrids around here too. People use them to circumvent the lack of car parking in this new part of town I recently moved to, since they intentionally didn’t really build any parking here.

simongray10:02:42

@U0525KG62 That’s definitely more of a longdistance travel bike than a cargo bike right?

otfrom10:02:07

the Tern GSD? A long tail cargo bike really. It can carry a lot of weight

otfrom10:02:21

you can get various things to hold cargo on the back

otfrom10:02:42

or do you mean the R&M Mixte?

simongray10:02:47

I meant the Tern GSD

simongray10:02:58

just from looking at pictures in use

simongray10:02:06

It seems quite flexible

otfrom10:02:50

I want to go to the garden centre and supermarket at the top of the hill, and the supermarket at the bottom of the hill and also be able to go on day trips to parks and closed firing ranges w/someone on the back

simongray10:02:55

seems like a good fit then 🙂

otfrom11:02:02

yeah, just a shame that the money for it is going to get my teeth fixed instead. Getting old is difficult

😄 2
😬 6
lread14:02:06

I've never owned a car (never wanted to), and have been eyeing these https://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers for years.

otfrom14:02:11

I want to attach one of those to one the the bikes above :greedy:

borkdude14:02:12

I sold my car like 10 years ago and occasionally use a shared one from our neighbourhood: capitalist communism ;)

thomas14:02:05

I only ever owned a car in the UK. For the last 6 years we managed with out one

thomas14:02:26

we use a shared one as well

thomas14:02:35

occasionally.

otfrom14:02:47

we didn't have a car in London. We've needed one in Scotland for my wife's work (not as many car shares available)

otfrom14:02:00

having an ebike would cut down on the few journeys we do

borkdude14:02:35

@U052852ES Greenwheels or Mywheels?

thomas14:02:00

Greenwheels. I have used a mywheel for work once... same difference.

lread14:02:24

Here's a https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A for those not too crazy about cars. But maybe you Europeans already have this figured out!

2
borkdude14:02:44

@U052852ES I've been using Greenwheels for about a decade now. Mywheels has recently come in our city as well, I think they do primarily electric cars right

thomas14:02:52

Yes, the mywheel I had was a Renault Zoe. Quite good IMHO. But Greenwheels has some electric ones as well and they have said they are expanding their electric fleet

simongray17:02:02

Here it is. It was honestly quite scary riding it through Copenhagen traffic, especially through some parts of town with very narrow bike lanes. I think I will adjust the seat to be lower than where I would normally have it just it to avoid feeling like I could tip over on the side when the road is uneven. 😬

😍 14
borkdude17:02:53

That looks awesome!

🙏 2
6
lemontea19:02:36

@U4P4NREBY that’s quite sophisticated beneath a simple appearance! 🥺

lemontea19:02:02

(also: resist the urge to post the “recursive car” meme)

Ivar Refsdal11:02:07

Wife and I have (+ 1 kid in kindergarden age) got a Tern GSD S00 (2021 model), we are very happy with it, particularly the belt drive: no worries about fixing a jumping/stuck chain and little maintenance needed. Pretty easy to bicycle uphill with a bunch of baggage + 1 child. Re thiefs: We are using https://bikefinder.com/en/ after some bicycles were stolen in our neighborhood. Dutch company VanMoof offers theft recovery service: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34822281

👍 2
javahippie11:02:08

I heard a lot of critique about Van Moof lately, because they use custom components for everything, so you rely on them for almost every spare part and repair- and last year they nearly went bankrupt.

Ivar Refsdal11:02:43

Ouch, sounds bad. Thanks for the tip. I had only heard about Van Moof on hacker news.

borkdude11:02:50

Another Dutch brand...

simongray11:02:51

Similar story with Baboo, I think. They want to be vertically integrated like Apple.

2
borkdude12:02:39

We need a Framework Bike

simongray12:02:53

@U04V15CAJ I think that’s just called a bike 😛

😄 2
lread13:02:03

Hope we don't need Fairbike someday (like Fairphone). Hope John Deere doesn't start making bikes.

borkdude13:02:40

"Justbike"

™️ 2
genRaiy13:02:43

Good morning

Mateusz Mazurczak13:02:07

Hello everyone, what is a competitive hourly rate in your country/europe for team lead? I've posted some time ago a clojure job offer for team lead and we've got a lot of applications but very few from more expensive countries (e.g. germany, france, netherlands, scandinavia). So I'm wondering if we are not to low with 60 eur per hour

borkdude13:02:28

A lot depends on what kind of contract this is: a permanent role, freelance, etc.

Mateusz Mazurczak13:02:01

We want someone for long term but on contractor basis (~220 days per year, 40h a week)

borkdude13:02:21

Usually permanent role is expressed in yearly salary, e.g. 100k or so (even when contracting)

Mateusz Mazurczak13:02:31

Oh okay, thanks! Maybe that's why

Mateusz Mazurczak13:02:46

And for that kind of work do you think 100k is okay? Because 60 eur translates to 105k yearly

borkdude13:02:25

Yes. For freelancers 60 an hour is pretty low, but this is because freelancers have to ask more because they usually have a lot more overhead. It also depends on your expertise, etc of course.

borkdude13:02:31

Whether 100k is enough for a team lead role, it might be reasonable, but I don't know enough about salaries to say if that's the case. There might be websites where you can requests averages

borkdude13:02:00

When you look at salaries in The Netherlands for such a role you might only see numbers like 60-70 but note that these are employees. Contractors usually have to ask for more because they pay their own insurances / retirement funds, no job protection etc.

👍 2
2
borkdude13:02:22

It can also work to indicate a range, e.g. 80-120k and then you decide on the quality/experience of the candidate what it becomes

👍 2
borkdude13:02:24

Or you leave out the number completely and you work out the details after you have the initial conversation

👍 2
javahippie14:02:49

Was talking a lot about this with Freelancers here in Germany: For a commonly available skill like Java or JavaScript the lower bound for contracting seems to be 80€/hr, most people with experience won’t accept less. For a team lead, I’d calculate with 90 at least.

borkdude14:02:01

similar here, but this is freelance vs contractor/employee setting which may matter

borkdude14:02:04

I think if you want to onboard permanent people it's better to speak of yearly salaries than hourly tariffs

javahippie14:02:56

Yes, completely agree. I saw “We want someone for long term but on contractor basis”, so I thought that’s what it was about 🙂

Mateusz Mazurczak14:02:32

We are just from different countries and we want people all over the world, so we are aiming at the way of payment that someone just invoices us every month. But we want to work together for years to come 🙂

Mateusz Mazurczak14:02:24

Thank you very much for all the responses, it's making it much clearer for us

borkdude14:02:35

That's how I've worked with an American company as well. In practice it felt very much like an employer/employee-relationship although formally it was contractor

javahippie14:02:49

My last two contracts lasted 4 years and 1 years, but the terms for both were agreed upon with hourly rates. At least in Germany, it would be highly unlikely to communicate a yearly wage for contracts

borkdude14:02:34

With the American company I worked with this was the only way they did it: yearly salary indication. They wanted to have permanent people, the way you got paid was just a formal detail

javahippie14:02:53

Interesting difference!

borkdude14:02:21

@U0281QDFE1X What country are you from?

borkdude14:02:40

And what is the job, anything Clojure related?

Mateusz Mazurczak14:02:20

Yeah, we will be building from scratch a sport related platform in clojure

🎉 4
Mateusz Mazurczak14:02:57

This is the offer I posted

Mateusz Mazurczak14:02:15

I've removed now the 60 euro per hour from it to rethink how to present it better or raise rates based on location

👍 2
javahippie14:02:01

Maybe put the “contractor” bit up higher? After the first few bullet points I was sure you were looking for a fixed employment, which made it uninteresting for me and I stopped reading back when you posted it

borkdude14:02:01

@U0N9SJHCH I think what Mateusz is looking for is "fixed employment" but legally in a contractor form, because this is just much easier to arrange than hiring someone as an employee from another country

👍 2
javahippie14:02:51

I get that! But if it is legally a contractor form, the target audience are contractors, aren‘t they? Most people I know who are working in a fixed employment would not quit their secure job to start a self-employment. (Also be aware: Being a contractor in a job with all characteristics of a permanent employment is illegal in Germany as it is seen as a way of circumventing social security laws)

javahippie14:02:49

(Very possible that my point of view is too skewed by German laws, of course)

borkdude15:02:45

In The Netherlands there are laws like that, but if you can prove that you're not actually an employee (you pay for your own laptop, office, you can work your own hours) the rules are more subtle

borkdude15:02:21

But it definitely helps if you have multiple things going, rather than filling up 40 hours for the same "client" years on end

javahippie15:02:01

Yeah it’s the same here. but that proof can be hard, and the tax authorities can decide case per case.

borkdude15:02:26

yep, sounds the same

borkdude15:02:21

So that may be indeed another very good reason fewer people apply to your job from central european countries @U0281QDFE1X

borkdude15:02:20

I know people working (remotely or partially in office) for AWS in Germany and other countries as regular employees. They can do so since AWS has set up Gmbh in Germany, some legal form in Netherlands etc.

slipset18:02:54

Didn’t read the ad, but equity might also be interesting for some.

borkdude18:02:20

right. I think equity is also more common in the US, perhaps?

borkdude17:02:27

What company is this again?

borkdude17:02:25

I mean what company Jakub worked at :) Same as you @U04V5VAUN right?

borkdude17:02:51

http://remote.com is what we call a payrolling company. yes, that construct works as well, but they usually take a fee like 5% or so

borkdude17:02:51

which may be well worth it compared to the hassle. I see http://remote.com takes 500-600 USD per "employee"

slipset17:02:48

It seems like it’s easier for us at least, compared to setting up subsidiaries in a bunch of countries where we only have one employee.

👍 2
borkdude17:02:59

yes, it seems to be the safest option as well for the "employee" so they won't get trouble with taxes

ordnungswidrig15:02:11

Good morning!

10
simongray17:02:02

Here it is. It was honestly quite scary riding it through Copenhagen traffic, especially through some parts of town with very narrow bike lanes. I think I will adjust the seat to be lower than where I would normally have it just it to avoid feeling like I could tip over on the side when the road is uneven. 😬

😍 14
lemontea19:02:25

morning! (moo-ing?)

🐄 2