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#clojure-europe
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2021-11-11
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anthony-galea07:11:37

Morning ☀️

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David Pham09:11:33

Good morning :)

reefersleep11:11:18

Good point about the name!

reefersleep11:11:36

Side note: I upgraded my OS and have taken to using bat all the time. Thanks for the tip!

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samoleary10:11:02

Morning 👋

ordnungswidrig11:11:28

Traveling to Berlin 🎉

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simongray12:11:19

good morning

simongray12:11:45

Man, sometimes I hate presenting stuff I’ve made to end users… the amount of nitpicking that goes on around small details is unbearable and hardly anyone focuses on the massive task that was accomplished.

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lread13:11:40

Sounds frustrating! Not sure if this applies to your situation but I found that involving stakeholders early and often helped. Nitpicking on minor visual aspects can sometimes be an expression of wanting to be more involved in some way.

simongray13:11:23

Good point. I think I have, but they’ve been rather busy and not really willing to get more involved when it was more conceptual/data wranling. Presenting a graphical application of the underlying data has opened the flood gates.

simongray13:11:22

One of them just came over and apologised for being overly negative. I guess they could see it made me rather uncomfortable. Made me feel a bit better.

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lread13:11:15

Oh that's nice!

lread13:11:19

Not at all saying your stakeholders are children... but I remember when I involved children in their meal preparation they were much more likely to enjoy their meal.

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javahippie13:11:36

Them apologizing is nice!

javahippie13:11:03

Once had a very nitpicky boss, so the dev team started implementing obvious flaws in the frontend, so they could nitpick on the “prepared” issues which were easily removable, and not started looking for issues that were not there.

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simongray14:11:00

hah, of course there is a term for that

lread14:11:55

By sheer coincidence, the 64-across clue in today's New York Times crossword is Nitpickers.

simongray14:11:28

The universe must be aligned against me

raymcdermott21:11:53

it's the user equivalent of bike shedding, in fact it's just bike shedding - we adopted that from the real world 🙂

raymcdermott21:11:42

everyone likes to deal with stuff they can grok rather than the stuff that is outside of their wheelhouse

lread22:11:51

I was going to bikeshed your use of bikeshedding but stopped myself when I realized I was being a pedant (answer to today’s crossword nitpicker clue!). I never looked up bikeshedding before, interesting!: > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshed#English +‎ https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ing#English. The term was coined as a metaphor to illuminate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality. Parkinson observed that a committee whose job is to approve plans for a https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nuclear_power_plant may spend the majority of its time on relatively unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what materials to use for the staff bikeshed, while neglecting the design of the power plant itself, which is far more important but also far more difficult to criticize constructively. It was popularized in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution community by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poul-Henning_Kamphttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding#cite_note-phk-bikeshed-1 and has spread from there to the software industry at large.

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simongray08:11:12

@U04V5V0V4 Yeah… it’s not my first experience with this kind of stuff. I remember at my old job I managed to finish a task in a single sprint that no one had basically dared to approach in 2 years (they were scared of the complexity and always picked more low-hanging fruit). I worked several late days and got it done in time - was really proud of myself. Then I presented the new features to some end users and the manager who was present had to interrupt me at some point and say “so see, even though it looks very basic, it actually took two whole weeks to do!“. I was fuming inside. If feel like software development - at least in this country - has this peculiar quality of being both low status while also being seen as highly complex and well-paid.

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javahippie10:11:13

It’s an issue I often had in internal development teams that are financed with budgeting. “They cost money, but don’t make any”.

raymcdermott12:11:56

@U4P4NREBY yeah that mix of status / rewards is a great observation: we really are white collar plumbers.

lread15:11:59

Not sure why, but I've always felt more like a drywaller myself.

raymcdermott17:11:21

Because you are always getting plastered?

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Jakub Holý (HolyJak)20:11:58

I'm practicing the fine art of code archeology, namely on om.next, drilling down back to 2015...

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Jakub Holý (HolyJak)22:11:37

The same piece of code is used in #fulcro and nobody knows why it is the way it is.

reefersleep10:11:43

fantastic 😄