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#clojure-europe
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2020-12-11
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synthomat06:12:13

good morning!

dharrigan06:12:59

Good Morning!

slipset08:12:08

Looking forwards to @raymcdermott’s forthcoming web-framework in Clojure, lubricant.

😂 2
hkjels09:12:33

Do you have some more details to share?

slipset09:12:18

Latest defn podcast

slipset09:12:33

Basically just a bad joke.

simongray09:12:02

A play on integrant?

slipset09:12:31

Sortof. The thing is that @U09LZR36F is working on a thing called wedge which is the successor of edge, and @raymcdermott asked why he’d want to use wedge, and after @U09LZR36F’s explanation, he compared wedge to a lubricant which takes away some of the friction in the Clojure dev experience.

slipset09:12:32

And, since I was on my bike when I listened to the podcast, my mind started to wander, as it often does when I’m on the bike.

dominicm09:12:44

If you like to cycle, maybe you like to https://github.com/juxt/spin

raymcdermott09:12:32

IIIRC I proposed WD40 as the name cos I like to the four letter constraint from JUXT

raymcdermott09:12:53

But yeah, it’s always just a bad joke

raymcdermott09:12:19

The only framework I want to make is something to replace git. The only barrier is to find a name that is four letters, more offensive but less than the obvious contenders

raymcdermott09:12:03

If you can unblock me folks, I will start work on it tomorrow :)

raymcdermott09:12:26

Turd would be an example of something that could, literally, pass

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raymcdermott09:12:39

hehe, maybe the passing of turd has unblocked me .... like I say they're all just bad jokes ... enjoy your Friday

borkdude10:12:32

Morning. I ordered a keyboard and paid special attention to the order of the left fn and ctrl key, because emacs. They managed to send me a box labeled US int but within the box was a keyboard with the wrong layout. Dang it. Just bought an Apple magic keyboard again. Luckily my wife doesn't care about emacs. How was your morning?

😂 2
slipset10:12:29

On a more serious notes, one of the many things that I will never make is a intention-based VCS.

slipset10:12:29

Normal VCS’s are stupid, they don’t know why you did what you did, just what you did. Imagine that your diff was (rename-symbol 'foo 'bar)

slipset11:12:16

instead of a bunch of single line diffs where foo was changed to bar

ordnungswidrig12:12:55

Well, git is simple in that it just records the fact and it leaves it to the diff tool. There is a diff-and-merge-tool for sexp but I never managed to get that working. Maybe somebody will come up with an emacs-mode sexp-diff-merge. I would totally crowd found that

ordnungswidrig12:12:28

Does IntelliJ idea support merges in more than the character/line level?

borkdude11:12:16

> On a more serious notes I was pretty serious and pissed off about this.

orestis12:12:52

@borkdude Have you found a vendor that’s not Apple and has any options about keyboard layouts? They seem to just not care and only offer whatever your country of residence has.

borkdude12:12:24

I was just at the local Apple vendor and they only had Dutch layout, but I mostly cared about the fn-ctrl order.

mpenet12:12:32

with dell you can just contact a rep and they'll send you whatever you want. I had laptops with US keyboards sent in switzerland/sweden without issue (they were just not available on the website for these countries). iirc they sent me a massive list of available layouts and I could just pick whatever

mpenet12:12:12

might be similar with apple if you do it via a corp entity

borkdude12:12:19

The nice thing about the logitech keyboard I ordered was that it is easy to switch between devices. I also have a PC (which currently has no keyboard, so I thought I could use it for two devices). But using emacs with the ctrl-fn order is impossible for me.

borkdude12:12:57

I don't know how I managed to do this before.

borkdude12:12:10

Apple lets you choose the keyboard layout on order for your laptop as well

borkdude12:12:09

The escape-touch-bar thing is not nearly an issue for me as this (which Apple has now fixed btw)

mpenet12:12:49

I like the touchbar 🙂 I think it's quite cool/usefull really (just used it on wifes laptop).

borkdude12:12:53

Anyway, I lost a few hours of quality Clojure time by this nonsense

borkdude12:12:36

I don't care about the touchbar but I also don't mind it.

borkdude12:12:05

What is sometimes annoying is that I can't find the pause button as quickly as I can on a normal keyboard

mpenet12:12:28

yeah, it's ok as long as you do not really on that row for anything critical. I like the way you can make it change to whatever you like per app & co

mpenet12:12:01

I wish my laptop had that. But I am not sure I would like to pay premium for it

ordnungswidrig12:12:27

The layout doesn't matter when you can flash the firmware 🤓

borkdude12:12:56

Maybe I don't want to

ordnungswidrig12:12:25

There are web configurator nowadays. Can be simple as clicking some buttons.

borkdude12:12:25

What kind of keyboard do you have that supports this?

ordnungswidrig12:12:52

I built them myself but there are stock keyboard which support this.

ordnungswidrig12:12:24

Not sure, but I think the hkkb and ducky may support this. But do not think about starting to build your own. The keyboard thing is an addictive money pit. 😂 I'm typing on my smartphone and have at least 10 keyboard at home from which I use one as my daily driver only. 🙈

borkdude12:12:27

I'm not attracted to this.

borkdude12:12:46

Also I don't have a mechanical keyboard because my office is in my living room

ordnungswidrig12:12:18

I've got silent mechanical keyboards

borkdude12:12:38

oh really. that I would be interested in

ordnungswidrig12:12:04

Most options are better than notebook keyboards. I could not work on the modern Apple ones. But to each their own.

ordnungswidrig12:12:38

The silent ones are "tactile" not "clicky".

borkdude12:12:56

Apple changed their keyboards again btw

borkdude12:12:03

Not the butterfly switch anymore

ordnungswidrig12:12:18

Most manufacturers not mechanical keyboards offer different keys switch options.

ordnungswidrig12:12:47

The problem with all notebooks is the low travel. You cannot escape that. all of m keyboards are taller than my 5yo MBP. But that's fine. I wonder how long that some replaces the travel of the key by some fake haptics like with the track pad. That works surprisingly well.

ordnungswidrig12:12:19

I'm going to buy an M1 MacBook for the family and because I'm curious. I will test the keyboard for sure 😉

simongray12:12:41

Personally, I prefer the notebook-style keyboards (not including the brief intermezzo of very crappy Apple keyboards). I think it’s all about what you’re used to. I remember you @U054UD60U, Søren and many others being very into mechanical keyboards back at UFST, but I just can’t relate. To me having long travel just feels weird 😛

mpenet12:12:07

yeah, I can use my mech in bed with my 1yo sleeping next to me

mpenet12:12:15

so I guess that passes the silence test

mpenet12:12:40

it's all about the switches you choose, and there's a lot of choice nowadays (including very low profile ones)

mpenet12:12:12

about long travel there are speed switches (I am using one of these, actuation is at 1.1mm) that make it a non issue

borkdude13:12:35

@U4P4NREBY I think I'm the same as you. I'm very fast on a note-book type of keyboard

borkdude13:12:25

e.g. the Apple Magic bluetooth keyboard

orestis13:12:33

I bought a second Microsoft Sculpt Ergo keyboard. I tried to build my own mech keyboard but I hated the long travel 🙂

borkdude13:12:27

I hate that almost all mouse models are for right-handed people.

borkdude13:12:35

At least the Apple mouse is symmetrical

borkdude13:12:28

@U7PBP4UVA How do you deal with the ctrl location on that kbd in emacs (if you're using the only true editor)?

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neovim 1
orestis13:12:30

Caps lock is control

orestis13:12:47

(Using vim but I have the paredit bindings even in insert mode)

orestis13:12:30

But I’m not sure what bothers you? Ctrl is a huge button at bottom-left, then windows key then alt.

borkdude13:12:25

What bothers me is when I have to type Ctrl-x-f with one hand, I have to stretch too much, if control is closer to the other keys (like on the Apple kbd) it makes more sense

borkdude13:12:43

I don't have big hands

borkdude13:12:44

Do you also have escape mapped to option in emacs?

borkdude13:12:07

Oh sorry, vim. Never mind

mpenet13:12:16

I use a similar layout (atreus), fingers move only vertically (short of the tyghbn keys access), ctrl/alt/shift/super is on thumbs

mpenet13:12:43

it's very comfy

borkdude13:12:54

this is too weird for me

mpenet13:12:49

it requires some practice at the beggining but it's a good investment given what we do

mpenet13:12:40

but there are also plenty keyboards with more common layouts with kailh/mx/mathias switches nowadays I think.

borkdude13:12:42

I think I'm like a Java programmer who couldn't be bothered to learn Clojure because his software works, at this point, but then for alternative keyboards/layouts :)

mpenet13:12:30

it's not all unicorns tho, I a bit gimped on regular keyboards now, well it takes me a couple hours to go back to regular speed on a normal laptop keyboard. But I am fast on the atreus and one of the point of it is that it's easy to carry anywhere

orestis13:12:56

Hey, finally a keyboard when you can press “any” key.

orestis14:12:07

Joking aside, what’s the name of that keyboard?

mpenet14:12:58

the one of the tweet? it's a http://keyboard.io 01

mpenet14:12:12

they also sell atreuses btw

orestis14:12:59

Ah it seems the model 01 is out of stock, to be replaced with model 100?

orestis14:12:06

Holy shit that used to cost $330! 🤯

mpenet14:12:30

yeah the atreus is much cheaper 🙂

lread15:12:59

I bought a used Kinesis Advantage 2 a while back, it took some getting used to, but and am digging it. My model has the loud keys. I use spacemacs with vi key bindings and have mapped Caps Lock to Esc. https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ (apologies from this Canadian on barging in on your European channel, but the vibe here is awesome!)

ordnungswidrig22:12:13

I’m an erogox where I like the split option so I can arrange the halves to my comfort. (And, yes, I change that from time to time). I’m a vivid Emacs and Vim user (actuall evil vi “emulation” in emacs). I have ctrl on what normally would be capslook. That’s enough comfort for me. (I stilly use escape on that unergonomic top left place because I cannot remember where I put it also on the thumbs cluster 😛 )