cherry 2022-08-15 | Slack Archive

clojurescript was superior to javascript at the time it was created

however, as of today, poor integration with the js environment is the biggest crutch

i have the dubious pleasure of writing frontend in typescript on a daily basis and it is better than i expected it to be, however the biggest drawback is writing tsx. hiccup is the most convenient way to write ui

👍 1

respatialized15:08:15

https://github.com/thi-ng/umbrella/tree/develop/packages/hiccup-html Not sure if you've seen this project, but a hiccup syntax for HTML with typechecking seems pretty useful. Wish the hiccup convention were more widespread!

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ribelo16:08:31

By the way, the loss of Karsten Schmidt to typescript is an irreparable loss for the clojure community

😢 1

ribelo16:08:51

is a one-man army

ribelo06:08:39

A lisp modeled after clojure, integrating better with the js ecosystem including async/await and allowing to write macros is 110% of what I dream of

borkdude06:08:07

@huxley cherry already supports those

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ribelo06:08:16

that's why I'm here and getting excited 🙂

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borkdude10:08:18

PSA: the JSX in cherry is currently a quick hack that doesn't work properly. It needs better integration throughout the compiler and I'll work on this in the coming time (to both support it in cherry and #clavascript)

mauricio.szabo14:08:56

I want a REPL and hot-reload 😄. When these two appear, it's quite possible I'll start building things in Cherry, even if it's unstable/alpha honestly 😄

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mauricio.szabo14:08:11

BTW, how far are we from these two targets? Also, do you think there'll be an "watch" mode like Shadow-CLJS, where hot-reload works, etc?

borkdude14:08:34

@mauricio.szabo Me too :) But hot-reload tbh is already supported by JS frameworks. You can try the vite example for example

borkdude14:08:46

It depends on your use case. For browser, hot reloading is already taken care of by the JS tooling

borkdude14:08:15

Note that the JSX stuff is currently broken (just a prototype) but there's also a React example which a createElement macro

mauricio.szabo15:08:16

Yeah, but my hot-reloadings are weird 😄. Shadow makes it extremely easy to handle the cases, but when I searched for JS tooling that do the same, they all need my app to be "aware" that it'll be reloaded, which is not ideal...

borkdude15:08:00

Roadmap-ish idea: • Extract common code from cherry and clavascript • Make JSX work in common compiler code so both clava and cherry will benefit • Solve the macro problem. Still need to figure some things out there (support JVM compile time or only JS) • Focus on REPL experience / hot reloading

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jackrusher16:08:41

I will also start using it in earnest once there's an nREPL situation 🙂

didibus18:08:50

Will it support eval and macros?

borkdude18:08:16

@didibus cherry already supports macros, but how it works will likely change. eval: the compiler should be available as a library in both JS and JVM so this is how you can get eval : you will pay the cost of bringing in the whole compiler though

didibus19:08:21

I'm thinking along the lines of people asking for REPL support and hot-reload.

didibus19:08:31

I would want that from the REPL, I can also define macros and maybe run eval, ideally, similar to self-hosted cljs REPLs. That gives you the full Clojure REPL feel.

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didibus19:08:07

But like you said, probably beyond REPL, I would not want to include the compiler itself in the output.

borkdude19:08:00

You can also do this with scittle and nbb today btw

borkdude19:08:34

But it's not as easy to pull this off with a compiler compared to an interpreter. In self-hosted you can't define macros in the REPL I think

didibus00:08:29

I've defined macros in the REPL with self-hosted clojurescript.

didibus00:08:26

But, I use an Android app called Replete, which uses self-hosted ClojureScript to give you a ClojureScript repl on Android, so maybe it does some more shenanigans on top to allow me to define macros, not sure.

didibus00:08:23

> Self-hosted CLJS is capable of compiling CLJS at runtime and does support macros but requires at least 2MB of JS so it isn’t practical for most build targets.

mauricio.szabo19:08:37

> support JVM compile time or only JS You meant, define macros in JVM thing, to keep the same semantics as ClojureScript have today, or move all to CLJS only?

borkdude19:08:33

yes. the compiler also currently works in babashka, which may be nice to preserve

borkdude19:08:12

except macros don't, they are assumed to be ran inside JS now (first compiled to JS code), which wont' work currently with bb or JVM

2022-08-15

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