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#braid-chat
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2016-01-10
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rafd09:01:23

BTW, my aim this week is to push Braid’s implementation sufficiently forward to convince all those interested that (1) Braid’s design concept is better long-term for the clojurians community than Slack/IRC-style, and (2) that we can get to a polished experience faster with Braid than starting from scratch, and (3) that it’s better to rally behind a single application. …not sure my efforts will be a success, but it’s my goal. simple_smile

arrdem09:01:53

I happen to share the same bias but for the Matrix project so hopefully we cancel each other out 😛

rafd09:01:25

i am open to porting what we have to matrix

rafd09:01:20

it isn't the highest priority for me right now (which is polishing the UX so that the potential of the concept is better understood), but I am pro-federation

rafd09:01:48

@arrdem: ^

arrdem09:01:46

Ja I saw it. Nothing to add.

meow09:01:13

sounds good to me

meow09:01:28

even if you lose, you still win

meow09:01:25

I recommend you use hackpad and/or just add onto the one @arrdem created for com-dev

meow09:01:31

or a mix

arrdem09:01:43

Just tack it on. One less thing to track.

meow09:01:45

I'm going to treat you like an independent project

meow09:01:08

but work with you and your goal

meow09:01:00

if the community picks you, great. if not, you will still have a killer product that can be used elsewhere

meow09:01:43

and I'll equally support whatever @arrdem wants to do with matrix

meow09:01:05

and the same for any other alternatives that folks want to push

meow09:01:49

I will cheerlead for each project while I'm wearing that projects hat and I will abstain from any voting or selection process

meow09:01:30

how does that sound?

rafd09:01:35

@meow: sounds good

rafd09:01:31

anyone know how matrix goes about room discovery?

meow09:01:16

can we ask/answer that over at comdev?

rafd09:01:46

@meow: sure

rafd10:01:29

the jumping-around / inability to focus of the discussions on #C0CB40N8K is exactly what I hope Braid can solve, and I think it's a result of the rooms model

rafd10:01:49

the topic of discussion keeps changing

rafd10:01:59

it's like every bad committee meeting in real life

rafd10:01:12

...eventually, progress will be made only because of some individual(s) who take it upon themselves to do work and not bikeshed

gjnoonan10:01:16

Really excited by your project @rafd and willing to help in any way I can

rafd10:01:29

thanks @gjnoonan

gjnoonan10:01:36

Could I get an invite to the waffle?

jaen10:01:53

Well, the remark about rooms being a so-so abstraction due to topic meandering makes sense but a) is there any instance that can be tried out to see how it works in practice, b) how would that mesh with IRC/Matrix integration though? Both seem to use room abstraction. Would rooms then be tag feeds?

rafd10:01:18

@gjnoonan: no waffle yet, will post here once i have something out; currently am using asana (and have my entire life there)... will work something out

rafd10:01:42

@jaen: do you mean, is there a Braid demo running? if so, yes, do you want an invite?

gjnoonan10:01:03

cool, I've used asana before simple_smile

rafd10:01:06

@jaen: re: (b) an open problem, on my to-do list this week

jaen10:01:05

@rafd: yeah, I'm interested to see how this scheme works in practice; would be nice to get an invite, even if just to lurk and observe.

rafd10:01:26

@gjnoonan: do you think it reasonable for an OSS project to use Asana? i'm considering using http://unito.io/ and having some core contributors directly on asana, and everyone else via github

rafd10:01:06

@jaen: invite sent

rafd10:01:15

on-boarding is really rough right now

rafd10:01:40

so far the project has been good enough for my partners and I

rafd10:01:54

...and has convinced me of the conversations > rooms concept

rafd10:01:01

...to the point we haven't needed polish

rafd10:01:10

but for mass adoption, needs polish

gjnoonan10:01:50

@rafd: I thnk it's reasonable for an OSS project to use whatever works for them as a consensus to get things done, whether that's GitHub Issues, Asana, Jira, or even org-mode. I have a some personal bias, but that's by-the-by. It's whats best for the team creating it

jaen10:01:13

@rafd: thanks; just how do I follow existing conversations? (or are there none so far?)

rafd10:01:09

@jaen: you'll see new ones, but old ones you'd need to search for (not great ux, i know, but it WorkedForUsSoFarTM)

jaen10:01:10

Ah, I see.

rafd10:01:14

i've been getting a lot of good feedback and hope to address is it asap

jaen10:01:38

It kinda makes sense to not get overwhelmed at first, but also a way to let user know he can see this or that would be helpful probably.

rafd10:01:46

in a community group, (1) likely lots of active conversations, so things wouldn't stay empty, and (2) i can do better at showing "Recent conversations"

jaen10:01:12

Just skimmed it, I guess I'll just watch it more attentively

rafd10:01:32

the first half is kind of meh

rafd10:01:50

..and this was done after day 1 of me working on it

rafd10:01:03

my thoughts have matured, i will be making a new video this week

rafd10:01:15

i've been maintaining a list of projects 'similar' to Braid, or at least, ones I think have something interesting to offer to 'better online discussions', moved it to github: https://github.com/braidchat/braid/wiki/Similar-Projects

jaen12:01:31

Re: list of similar projects I've just remembered this - https://zulip.org/

rafd16:01:47

@jaen added

rafd16:01:36

re: matrix compatibility, I have an idea (may be terrible): just have each group (ex. clojurians) be a room, and tags be meta-data on each message; slight bastardization of the matrix room concept, but it could work (it would then be up to each user's Braid server to filter out the messages they don't care about before sending to the client)

jaen16:01:25

Hmm, I must say rooms as tag feeds (as in you get messages that match the room name) feel more intuitive to me than that.

rafd16:01:50

@jaen so a message with multiple tags would be replicated across multiple rooms? (not against it)

jaen16:01:03

Yes, that's the idea. A tag-aware client would know how to deal with that

jaen16:01:25

And room-based clients would still be able to make some degree of sense of what is happening

rafd16:01:48

sounds good to me; from my experience most messages end up with a single tag anyway, but with larger teams / groups that may change, either way, client deduping should be easy

meow17:01:23

you guys are crushing it

rafd17:01:10

fyi, i'll be posting updates both here and on #braid in the clojurians braid group

meow18:01:24

what is the clojurians braid group

rafd18:01:31

the braid instance i have running

rafd18:01:45

@meow: that you've been using

meow18:01:28

ok, cool