@foo I'm sure I read this at some point in years gone by, but I'd definitely forgotten it: https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine ... thanks for reminding me. Outside of the OOP=yay + MVC=yay and the "Progress over Stability" section, I think it's safe to say I still agree with most of what he's pitching here. One nuance: There's something about Ruby that conflates cute code and beautiful code, but I feel like those battle lines are already well-drawn in the Clojure ecosystem. The first 2 or 3 years of Clojure's existence taught everyone some hard lessons and, in general, I don't see a lot of those painful design mistakes making it very far these days. Clojure is also inherently constrained in a way Ruby isn't, so it's probably not a big deal anyway. Like, Ruby offers 150 weird metaprogramming and object lifecycle hooks that don't even make sense in a Clojure universe.