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Jim Newton08:11:05

what is a non-sequence called in Clojure? In traditional lisps, non-lists are called atoms. But Clojure uses the word atom for something else.


Don't think there's a general name for that. At least never heard of one.


I normally just call things as they are: list, vector, map, set, symbol, keyword, number, string, etc.

Ben Sless08:11:14

I think no one will be offended if you refer to it as a scalar

❤️ 2
Jim Newton10:11:19

scalar? that's a pretty good name actually


True, I do use scalar for non collections

Daniel Stephens09:11:11

As far as I can tell, side effects are okay in reduce? Is that correct?

Ben Sless09:11:30

Yes, reduce is strict

Ben Sless09:11:54

Take a look at run! for example. It is implemented with reduce

🙏 1

Use doseq if its only side effects

Daniel Stephens23:11:57

Thanks, I actually was replacing a bit of code that was using a doseq as I needed it sometime to be side effecting and othertimes not and to give back all of the values. reduce gives me the best of both 👍


Sounds complex...

Daniel Stephens17:11:37

I guess it kind of is, it is a bit of a unique case. it's a function that traverses a ktable within an open connection, sometimes it makes sense just to do something side effecting, i.e. for each value push a new message to kafka. In a few cases where we know the table is small I want to just get all the results into a seq to do something else with. reduce lets me either build a seq from each value, or do something side effecting and then throw the value away. I can't let things be too lazy as the connection might close before things are realised. I have actually hidden that behind two functions, one which just gets all values, and another which only allows side effects on each row, but since the underlying stuff is some funky java interop I only wanted to write the general version once.

Jim Newton11:11:24

can someone remind me the idiom to use with try/`catch` to catch the exception if a condition, else don't catch it, or perhaps rethrow it? I was looking for an example in the and, but I didn't see any.

Jim Newton11:11:46

should I simply call throw on the given exception? will that destroy the stack trace?


Yes, calling throw on the given exception should do what you want. And it shouldn't destroy the stack trace. Also before throwing you have full access to the given exception meaning you can build new exception based on the stack trace from the one given

Jim Newton12:11:19

I don't need it now, but if I test the exception object and decide to rethrow it, is it still subject to the other (catch ...) clauses in the same (try ...)? That could be good or that could be bad depending on the situation. It would be excellent if that were specified behavior.


yes, it is unclear from documentation but expressions in catch evaluated outside of try context


It should behave like Java does. So if the exceptions in the catches are in an inheritance hierarchy the most specific one is the one caught. A re-throw would not be caught in the same try-catch but, obviously, any finally expression is eval'ed at the end.

Daniel Stephens12:11:24

Am I missing a clojure.core fn to get the dispatch val of a multi-method given some input, I thought it would go hand in hand with get-method but I can't see anything obvious. Would it be bad to use ((.dispatchFn ig/init-key) "blah" "blah") or is that unlikely to change?


you can write defmulti with a var in place of dispatch function

(defmulti foo some-dispatch-fn)
this function you can use to get dispatch value
(some-dispatch-fn "blah")

Daniel Stephens23:11:08

forgot to press enter, sorry! Unfortunately in my case I don't own the defmethod, it's integrant/init-key, the method it uses is anonymous and delegates to a private method, .dispatchFn worked fine for me for now, just suprised there wasn't something in core for it

Jim Newton13:11:27

Does anyone here also program in Scala? If so, maybe you can help me answer a

Louis Kottmann13:11:04

how do you deal with exceptions that happen in anonymous functions that run in a future?

Louis Kottmann13:11:04

I had to run the code without the future and de-anonymize the function to even get the exception to show up instead of being silently discarded, it was quite the painful debugging experience

Louis Kottmann13:11:56

should I not use futures for non-trivial work?

Louis Kottmann13:11:39

ah, it was slingshot's throw+ / try+ that somehow hid all that


Not sure if it’s relevant, but in Java every non-main thread discards unhandled exceptions by default, but you can change that behaviour as described here:

Louis Kottmann15:11:47

thanks, I'll add that, even though I mostly use futures


Pretty sure futures are dispatched on non-main threads, so unless your code is catching exceptions and doing something with them, they’ll disappear silently (as per JVM default behaviour).


No, a thrown exception inside the future is returned as the value of the future


And the future :status will be :failed

Louis Kottmann21:11:43

The problem comes from futures that I never dereference

Louis Kottmann21:11:01

Are they ever cleaned up btw?


When the reference to the future is gone, it will be garbage collected


Why would you care about a failed future you don't deref? This fire and forget behavior would imply to me that you choose to not care about what happens to the task

Louis Kottmann07:11:49

Oh I do care, the result is a side effect though (slack message)

Louis Kottmann07:11:23

I don't keep a reference to the future, nor do I wanna block on it


What I mean is, if you do care, then dont implement a fire and forget behavior. The "forget" part implies that you don't care if it succeeds or not.


So I assume you want to say log a message, output an error metric, perform a retry, etc. So for any of these, you need to explicitly handle the error


You can also check the status of the futures from the main thread without blocking, if you want to handle them here (or since you're error handling is a side effect as well, you can handle them in the future thread).


So like in your main thread, you could check if the future is realized? yet, and if it is, check if it errored and do whatever you want in that case.


But in your case, probably just have a try/catch inside the future itself.

Louis Kottmann01:11:20

right, I have a try/catch in the future

Louis Kottmann01:11:07

but I start to feel like I'm using futures incorrectly, and should be using another multithreading technique more appropriate


I can't speak to that, but it's fine to use futures to fire async tasks that only do a side effect. Just make sure you try/catch them.

  (try (task)
  (catch Throwable t
    (handle-error t))))


You can make yourself a little util for it:

(defn fire-async
  [task error-handler]
     (try (task)
     (catch Throwable t
       (error-handler t)))))


With future, you can fire an infinite number of concurrent tasks. There will be one thread per concurrent task. So at 100 concurrent tasks, you will have 100 threads. As the number of concurrent tasks goes down, the number of threads will go down as well, but it will lag behind, as threads wait for 60 seconds in the hope they can be reused.


This means that in theory, you could run out of memory if you fire too many concurrent tasks. And really, it will be the total set of concurrent futures and agent send-off executing in your program.


That's why sometimes people will recommend in server code where you can't predict how much concurrency you'll end up having (nothing upstream of the future call is bounded for example), to either use your own executor service. Or to change the default executor for future to a bounded one, or to use core.async with bounds.

Louis Kottmann10:11:49

thank you very much

Louis Kottmann12:11:27

actually, with core.async, I could probably create a ~10 channels that work concurrently, with extra work waiting in the queue and when my program exits, I could ensure they are all done with alts! which is neat (I wondered how I could do that)

Louis Kottmann12:11:34

I will play around with that


When your app closes, running futures will prevent it from shutting down, so it will wait for all futures to complete as well, nothing will get interupted


Even if you call shutdown-agents this will be the case. All running future and agent actions will need to first complete before the app terminates


Hi all, "lein ring server" command is for starting ring server, what is the command to stop already running server?


I think it's just Ctrl-c to kill the process. Using wrap-reload with ring can reduce the need for restarting the server, although it's still required when adding dependencies.

Test This15:11:29

Hi! What is an easy way to save different configurations for test and production? I want to use a different database name when running tests and a different database for development/production code when not running tests. I first thought of hardcoding the database name in the dbfuncs.clj file (using def. But then I changed it to a function. I need to now add code that reads the database name from somewhere. Is it possible to say something like: if running tests then use dbname gamesdbfortest and if not running tests then use dbname gamesdb?

(def hds-opts (atom nil))

(defn db-config
  {:dbtype "postgres" :dbname dbname})

(defn set-datasrc 
  (let [^HikariDataSource hds (connection/->pool HikariDataSource (db-config dbname))]
    (reset! hds-opts (j/with-options hds {:builder-fn rs/as-unqualified-lower-maps})))) 

practicalli_john21:11:48 is a very good library for managing different environments

Louis Kottmann15:11:01

there's environ and lein-environ, works well for me


(Hopefully) simple question about clj-time: Is it possible (and if so, how) to get out non-traditional date values? For example, I would like to get day-of-year, week-of-year and day-of-week from a parsed UTC date.


@U6SN41SJC As one of the clj-time maintainers, I'll remind you that the library is deprecated and we recommend folks use Java Time instead, either directly via interop or through one of the available wrappers (which are listed on the clj-time README).


cool thanks.


I suppose on day-of-week can just translate from text abbreviation to a numeric value, so nvm about that one. 🙂

Test This15:11:56

@lkottmann Thank you. Will look into environ. I am using deps.edn so the other may not work.

Test This15:11:34

Anyone has deps.edn examples for environ? I see only lein and boot examples in the readme.


Hi guys, can anyone help me and translate the following code snippets into json structure or something I could understand. I don't have a Clojure background and I need to recreate a similar structure in a javascript. i will appreciate your help

(merge {:event/stream :users
                           :event/partition-key user-id
                           :event/type :users/created
                           :event/actors #{:user-id :referring-user-id}
                           :user-id user-id
                           :referring-user-id referring-user-id}
                          (select-keys new-user [:first-name :last-name :username :email]))
And this one:
{:event/type :users/created
                   :event/created-at (java-time/instant)
                   :user-id #uuid "d415fb11-3d42-4a5d-911e-484b1baad7af"}


the translation is trivial, what's the specific issue you are having?


{:foo/bar baz} in a clojure data literal becomes {"foo/bar": baz} in json


or "foo_bar" if you prefer - json doesn't have namespaces so there's no direct equivalent


does it mean the

{:event/type :users/created
                   :event/created-at (java-time/instant)
                   :user-id #uuid "d415fb11-3d42-4a5d-911e-484b1baad7af"}
Will be translated into something like:
{"event/type": "users/created", 
"event/created": "2020-06-02T21:34:33.616Z",
"user-id": "d415fb11-3d42-4a5d-911e-484b1baad7af"
as a json object


Thank you @U051SS2EU for a quick reply


(println (json/generate-string {:event/type :users/created
                        :event/created-at (java-time/instant)
                        :user-id #uuid "d415fb11-3d42-4a5d-911e-484b1baad7af"}))



you can check what it serializes to to double check your work. or let cheshire do the work for you


the json alias here is cheshire.core


Great! As I think that's all what I need to know 🙂 Thanks guys and have a good weekend!


which libraries do you use for data visualization? (charts / graphics)


vega-lite is the way to go. Oz is good for getting started, but it's pretty easy to create your own wrapper around vega-embed when you need more flexibility.


Can both be used from Clojure and not ClojureScript?