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2015-06-17
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dmich00:06:41

Just trying gitter now. Can't turn off the list of people on the right. So uses up lots of screen space. Which is a problem if you like non widescreen monitors

dmich00:06:16

I gotta say, I'm somewhat surprised how much memory the windows slack app uses.

dmich00:06:23

like 7 slack.exe processes? 800MB?

dmich00:06:10

Whereas before I hardly ever worried about mem usage I now have to watch it carefully otherwise system slows down to a crawl.

akiva00:06:15

i doubt you could successfully migrate the 1,400+ people here to there.

akiva00:06:35

and by migrate, i mean ‘convince to switch’.

seancorfield01:06:09

@dmich: my understanding is that Gitter has one conversation per GitHub repo and no private chat groups, whereas Slack lets you have arbitrary public channels and private groups under one account.

dmich01:06:01

> Finally, channels allow you to create arbitrary rooms that don't map directly to an entity on GitHub. For example you may with to your create YourOrg/chat as a public chat room. Channels can be public, private or inherit GitHub owner permissions.

seancorfield01:06:32

Hmm, OK, I didn’t realize you could create additional rooms off the organization base...

seancorfield01:06:55

I use Gitter for a couple of projects I’m involved with and I find it very primitive compared to Slack.

seancorfield01:06:13

It’s fine for GitHub-specific stuff (like showing the list of issues and PRs and commits)

dmich01:06:28

It just got a UI update. Don't know if its better since only used it for a few minutes now.

seancorfield01:06:53

But bear in mind Clojure projects — at least core and contrib — don’t use issues or PRs, they use JIRA and patches, so you’d lose a lot of Gitter’s "benefits" anyway.

dmich01:06:56

Yea, slack is whizzier

dmich01:06:40

But I really don't care about that aspect of slack (jira etc), I just want to ask questions on clojure topics

seancorfield01:06:25

I’m in six Slacks and find it a much more pleasant experience than Gitter, but then I’m mostly on Mac… the Windows Slack app doesn’t run well on Windows 10 Tech Preview last I tried (which is what I have on my laptop) so I end up using the web version in Edge which is… OK.

seancorfield01:06:59

There’s also IRC of course.

seancorfield01:06:14

So, dive in to the #C03S1KBA2 channel and ask questions!

dmich01:06:33

I used to visit #C03S1KBA2 IRC but was so busy, hard to follow

dmich01:06:25

here at least there is a separate channel for #C053AK3F9 (not that most people there seem like beginners to me simple_smile )

seancorfield01:06:38

There’s a #clojure-beginners on freenode IRC too, FWIW. We try to make them both friendly and welcoming!

escherize02:06:12

Last I heard, they are not willing.

sveri13:06:27

Hm, any nice ideas for side projects?

zoldar14:06:41

@sveri: still doing livecoding from time to time ? simple_smile

sveri14:06:22

@zoldar: Not right now, my wife is going to bed early, only have access to a laptop then. And during the day I have to work actually -.-

zoldar14:06:28

@sveri: shame. I had my own (feeble) attempts at it but I'm quickly getting nervous and don't think clearly - weird, I know

mj_langford14:06:23

Fellow typers of many parentheses: Any RSI tips as far as remapping () to lessen the wrist stress of all the ((((()))))))?

gtrak14:06:53

I never have to write ) because paredit does it for me.

mj_langford14:06:04

I was expecting that one 😄

gtrak14:06:51

getting an ergodox is my other tip simple_smile

martinklepsch14:06:31

@mj_langford: @txus might have a bunch of advice simple_smile

txus14:06:12

@mj_langford: definitely go for the ergodox

txus14:06:24

and take microbreaks (there’s a bunch of apps for that)

txus14:06:46

and if you want a medium-term investment, learn a sane keyboard layout

gtrak14:06:16

I was back up to speed on ergodox after standard qwerty within a week, which is nice, because i needed to get work done.

mj_langford14:06:18

So everyone is leaving () on a shift key? Wow

txus14:06:20

over christmas I picked up Workman, after a week I was at 40WPM, right now I’m over 100WPM (with Qwerty I’m 140WPM)

martinklepsch14:06:03

@mj_langford: how do you mean leaving it on a shift key?

mj_langford14:06:33

US keyboard layout has ( as shift 9 and ) as shift 0.

mj_langford14:06:17

I’d (perhaps wrongly) assumed people were remapping () to a default keypress with all the use of the symbol in clj

gtrak14:06:39

i tend to use my index for it

martinklepsch14:06:21

@mj_langford: I have it mapped to left and right shift

mj_langford14:06:29

where did you put shift?

martinklepsch14:06:38

it’s still there

martinklepsch14:06:31

(second half of the post really)

mj_langford14:06:36

EXACTLY what I was looking for 😄

martinklepsch14:06:21

it’s a pretty low-investment type thing, I guess getting a proper keyboard and/or using a different layout might be still a good idea 😉

mj_langford14:06:37

I have a proper keyboard, dvorak still puts () in the “press shift” row

akiva14:06:46

Whoa, @martinklepsch, that’s pretty cool.

mj_langford15:06:06

I was thinking about installing something to yell at me like I used to have in windows when I single hand chorded again (didn’t even know if that’d work), but was hoping something awesome like this existed first

akiva15:06:10

I use Karabiner anyway to remap CAPS LOCK.

stijn15:06:25

i’m using the modern space cadet article as well

stijn15:06:29

also very efficient for typing emoticons 😉

shaun-mahood15:06:00

@seancorfield: What problems did you have with the Slack app on Win 10? I've been running it without noticing any problems for a couple weeks now but haven't done anything too fancy.

shaun-mahood15:06:59

@mj_langford: I've remapped the following keys - 3 to 9, 4 to 0, 7 to [, 8 to ], and find it unbelievably better. I've also used autohotkey (on Windows) to change it so that 9 is (, shift-9 is 9, 0 is ) and shift-0 is 0. Using a modified dvorak on a Kinesis. I've also moved the /, - and ; keys to be easier to get to but those moves are pretty specific to the Kinesis layout.

mj_langford15:06:11

which kenesis? I have the freestyle

mj_langford15:06:44

btw this L shift R shift parenthesis thing is fabulous

shaun-mahood15:06:37

Freestyle here too.

shaun-mahood15:06:13

My typing issues are all related to my pinky fingers, so I have basically remapped it so I don't use them. I have shift keys mapped where Enter and Delete are on the freestyle, space on the space and backspace keys, and don't use the left and right shift keys at all.

chris15:06:26

I remapped caps to esc and I love it

shaun-mahood15:06:30

It's amazing how much of a difference remapping a few keys can make.

mj_langford15:06:12

I get that @shaun-mahood: I wrote a assembler that required caps when I was in my early 20s and hurt myself a good bit not using use caps lock when writing code on it for weeks, injuring my wrist. Been really paranoid since then when I feel any pain and why emacs is so troubling for me. Going to try some of the stuff from that article martin linked and then get into more comprehensive remaps if I’m still feeling it. Thanks all!

shaun-mahood15:06:55

@mj_langford: Let me know if you want any ideas or come up with anything awesome. I'm kind of assuming that the number of people using a Kinesis freestyle, Dvorak layout to type clojure code is pretty small (but there are at least 2 of us, which is 1 more than I expected).

akiva15:06:45

I did much of what that article recommended including the forced-SHIFT key thing to balance out SHIFT usage. I’m doing the SHIFT-parens thing and also if I hit both SHIFT keys at once, it toggles CAPS LOCK.

mj_langford15:06:13

I’m probably going to map away the normal () as well

akiva15:06:29

I’ve also mapped ESC to ⌘Space for use with Alfred.

akiva15:06:37

@mj_langford: What would you map them to?

mj_langford15:06:08

the L shift and R shift without any other keypress that it mentioned down below

akiva15:06:54

Interesting. I’ll have to read back over that bit. I want to do the HYPER key thing as well.

seancorfield15:06:01

@shaun-mahood: my problems with Slack on Windows 10 started with the installer: it just wouldn’t run for several preview builds, then the app itself wouldn’t launch — or would launch and immediately crash, or would launch and then hang before the content was fully rendered. I haven’t tried it on a recent preview build, so I may download it again and see if things have improved.

seancorfield15:06:18

In general Win 10 has been pretty good itself (but very slow in early builds) but apps have been the problem for me, although that seems to have improved in the last few builds. I’m on the fast track for builds so I get less stable ones...

shaun-mahood15:06:30

@seancorfield: They must have improved things, I haven't run into any problems like that. I've been on the fast track too, running it as my primary machine for quite a while. I've had a few problems with drivers too, and have had a few apps that just don't want to work still. My favourite are the ones that stop with the message "We're sorry, you need to be running Windows XP SP2 or later."

seancorfield15:06:06

Are you using Edge as your primary browser for testing?

pataprogramming16:06:43

@mj_langford: I remap Caps Lock to Hyper (Hyper is a great place to stick your personal Emacs keybindings), and the Hyper+right-hand-keys go to a modified version of the programmer's pad from the old Fingerworks TouchStream keyboard. So Hyper-L is '(', Hyper-; is ')' Hyper-Alt with right hand is for paredit manipulations.

shaun-mahood16:06:46

No, mainly chrome - haven't used Edge much at all. I have noticed that Chrome feels less stable than what it used to, especially when trying to print, but I don't know if that's Win 10 related as I've seen other people complaining about it to.

seancorfield16:06:25

@shaun-mahood: Edge has improved dramatically in the last two builds. I was having a really hard time using it for a lot of sites before that but now it’s quite usable. Still slower than Chrome, but it keeps getting better.

meow16:06:42

@shaun-mahood: any chance you could share your autohotkey script? I've got caps remapped to esc via the registry but would like to remap other keys and try out autohotkey.

meow16:06:22

anyone else using autohotkey that wants to share their script(s)?

shaun-mahood16:06:55

@meow:

9::(
0::)
$+9::Send 9
$+0::Send 0

dmich16:06:28

@martinklepsch: Hah, great tip. I just installed autohotkey for windows and now I can use ctrl to send escape, and left/right shift to send (). Thanks.

shaun-mahood16:06:44

There's a crazy amount of autohotkey scripting out there. There are a couple of different people who have developed scripts that do chording, which actually work pretty well considering how complicated they are. I've tried a bunch of different more complicated setups and have found it to be especially good for experimentation.

meow16:06:09

@shaun-mahood: tyvm

meow16:06:49

@dmich: what's your script look like for that? I'd like to set up my left/right shift keys.

dmich16:06:16

@meow:

Ctrl & AppsKey::Return
Ctrl::
    Send {Esc}
Return
LShift & AppsKey::Return
LShift::
    Send (
Return
RShift & AppsKey::Return
RShift::
    Send )
Return

meow16:06:03

(= true :shift-parens)

meow16:06:29

@dmich: works great, thanks! simple_smile

sveri17:06:15

@mj_langford http://www.neo-layout.org/ here, working OK for me in combination with paredit

shaun-mahood17:06:46

@sveri: That looks pretty interesting. How was it getting used to all the modifiers and key layers?

sveri17:06:01

@shaun-mahood i learned English layout, then Dvorak programmer layout and finally neo. From a programming point of view neo is best fit for me. Learning it took me several months every time, but I did not force it. I guess one could make the switch in like2 to 4 weeks, if you force it.

otijhuis17:06:50

@dmich: I do the same on all machines I have to work on. Windows -> autohotkey, Mac -> karabiner, on Linux I can’t remember the name simple_smile. Map Capslock to Ctrl. Send Esc or Ctrl-G with Ctrl, depending on the fact if I’m in Emacs or not, and shift keys for parens. Wouldn’t want to go back.

shaun-mahood17:06:28

@sveri: Cool, that sounds about the same amount of time as it took me to go to Dvorak. I love the idea of different keyboard layers.

dmich17:06:26

@otijhuis: Ah Ctrl-G when in emacs sounds like a good idea also.

otijhuis17:06:31

@dmich: still debating if I should use the return key on the macbook as 2nd ctrl when pressed together with another key

gtrak18:06:46

this conversation has made me notice that rshift lshift on the ergodox triggers capslock, I think i've been doing this by accident for months.

gtrak18:06:06

then having to run a python script to turn it off, since I have no capslock key..

martinklepsch19:06:53

Man I want threading.

sveri20:06:37

@shaun-mahood: Yea, I like that too. The biggest advantage for me in neo is to have two modifiers with which I can type special chars on top of qwerty, not having to move my hands up and down.